Rolex Sub purchase any advice welcome

[TimLambert7]

It's my fathers 60th later in the month and he has decided he'd like a dateless Submariner.

A combination of waiting list (3 months?!) and budget has lead him down the second hand route and I've offered to help him find the right watch.

Basically, we need all the help we can get. General buying advice, what we should look for, what we should expect for the budget and any past experience is all welcome.

All we have figured out so far is that a 14060M might be the one to get....

Budget is around £4000 but is slightly flexible for the right piece.

Thanks in advance

(Edited to remove reference to waiting list)

Edited by TimLambert7 on Monday 4th August 21:53

[Eleven]

TimLambert7 said:

It's my fathers 60th later in the month and he has decided he'd like a dateless Submariner.

A combination of waiting list (3 months?!) and budget has lead him down the second hand route and I've offered to help him find the right watch.

Basically, we need all the help we can get. General buying advice, what we should look for, what we should expect for the budget and any past experience is all welcome.

All we have figured out so far is that a 14060M might be the one to get....

Budget is around £4000 but is slightly flexible for the right piece.

Thanks in advance

The chronometer rated 14060m is the one to get.

[aeropilot]

TimLambert7 said:

It's my fathers 60th later in the month and he has decided he'd like a dateless Submariner.

A combination of waiting list (3 months?!)

I know where there's a new dateless SubC sitting in a Rolex dealer window.

[toohuge]

There should't be a wait list, it sounds like your local dealer is spinning you a tale....

There are plenty around whenever I have looked, try calling some of the other bigger stores, such as Harrods, the Rolex boutique in Knightsbridge and the Westgate to name a few. You should be able to find one in stock.

Failing that, as you are new to this game, and it is very easy to get burnt in a big way, try some of the larger dealers like Blowers in Hull.

Actually, having reread all of that, have you tried giving Dominic H a call from this forum? I would be amazed if he couldn't sort something for you and you will have nothing to worry about. - That would be my first call.

Chris

[DanL]

aeropilot said:

I know where there's a new dateless SubC sitting in a Rolex dealer window.

Me too - these people had one on display at the weekend...

http://www.robertgatwardjewellers.co.uk/windsor

[TimLambert7]

toohuge said:

There should't be a wait list, it sounds like your local dealer is spinning you a tale....

There are plenty around whenever I have looked, try calling some of the other bigger stores, such as Harrods, the Rolex boutique in Knightsbridge and the Westgate to name a few. You should be able to find one in stock.

Failing that, as you are new to this game, and it is very easy to get burnt in a big way, try some of the larger dealers like Blowers in Hull.

Actually, having reread all of that, have you tried giving Dominic H a call from this forum? I would be amazed if he couldn't sort something for you and you will have nothing to worry about. - That would be my first call.

Chris

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the waiting list, my understanding is the decision to go second hand is primarily budget led. The list price is £5300 if I recall correctly?

I contacted Dom H on twitter and he suggested I call him - I'll put my dad on to it.

[WWYD]

I have just bought a non-date sub 14060 in near mint condition with. Box and papers/tags etc for £3.4k - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My personal advice would be to handle as many watches as you can before buying - that way you will develop a 'feel' for what is a good watch versus a pup/fake.

Box/papers essential but you need to check the serial number matches the paperwork (get the dealer to remove the bracelet to show you the serial number). Also make sure it's the correct box for the year. Personally I would rather buy one that hasn't been refurbed as you can see the general condition of the watch rather than one that has been potentially abused before being tarted up for sale.

Oh, and personally I wouldn't worry about going for the COSC (14060M) versions - my non COSC is accurate to within 1 second every 3 or 4 days.

[TimLambert7]

WWYD said:

I have just bought a non-date sub 14060 in near mint condition with. Box and papers/tags etc for £3.4k - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My personal advice would be to handle as many watches as you can before buying - that way you will develop a 'feel' for what is a good watch versus a pup/fake.

Box/papers essential but you need to check the serial number matches the paperwork (get the dealer to remove the bracelet to show you the serial number). Also make sure it's the correct box for the year. Personally I would rather buy one that hasn't been refurbed as you can see the general condition of the watch rather than one that has been potentially abused before being tarted up for sale.

Oh, and personally I wouldn't worry about going for the COSC (14060M) versions - my non COSC is accurate to within 1 second every 3 or 4 days.

Thanks, lots of useful advice in there.

He is doing lots of internet searching and I for one can't imagine buying a £4k used watch without seeing it! He lives in Penzance so there's pretty much zero Rolex dealers apart from Michael Spiers in Truro.

Just to get this clear in my mind, the 14060 is the non-chronometer version and the 14060M is the chrono version? Should we expect to see much price difference between the two?

[Athlon]

Just deal with Dominic, it will be a faultless, enjoyable deal and he will secure you the best piece for the budget you have.

[Eleven]

TimLambert7 said:

WWYD said:

I have just bought a non-date sub 14060 in near mint condition with. Box and papers/tags etc for £3.4k - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My personal advice would be to handle as many watches as you can before buying - that way you will develop a 'feel' for what is a good watch versus a pup/fake.

Box/papers essential but you need to check the serial number matches the paperwork (get the dealer to remove the bracelet to show you the serial number). Also make sure it's the correct box for the year. Personally I would rather buy one that hasn't been refurbed as you can see the general condition of the watch rather than one that has been potentially abused before being tarted up for sale.

Oh, and personally I wouldn't worry about going for the COSC (14060M) versions - my non COSC is accurate to within 1 second every 3 or 4 days.

Thanks, lots of useful advice in there.

He is doing lots of internet searching and I for one can't imagine buying a £4k used watch without seeing it! He lives in Penzance so there's pretty much zero Rolex dealers apart from Michael Spiers in Truro.

Just to get this clear in my mind, the 14060 is the non-chronometer version and the 14060M is the chrono version? Should we expect to see much price difference between the two?

As far as I am aware, there are some 14060m that aren't chronometers. The chronometers have four lines of text at the bottom of the dial and were made after 2007 the non-chronometers have two.

[michael gould]

also take a look at dream watches, I have dealt with them many times successfully and they only deal in Rolex

[gregf40]

Eleven said:

As far as I am aware, there are some 14060m that aren't chronometers.

Whilst 14060M's before (2008 ish) were not COSC certified - it does not mean they don't perform within COSC specs.

It just means Rolex did not pay for them to be tested and get certification.

They most certainly do perform within COSC specs.

[Quinny]

gregf40 said:

Whilst 14060M's before (2008 ish) were not COSC certified - it does not mean they don't perform within COSC specs.

It just means Rolex did not pay for them to be tested and get certification.

They most certainly do perform within COSC specs.

I'm pretty sure both versions actually use the same movement......the difference is just a bit of paper

[Eleven]

gregf40 said:

Eleven said:

As far as I am aware, there are some 14060m that aren't chronometers.

Whilst 14060M's before (2008 ish) were not COSC certified - it does not mean they don't perform within COSC specs.

It just means Rolex did not pay for them to be tested and get certification.

They most certainly do perform within COSC specs.

I don't doubt that some do, but they aren't chronometers. The COSC certification is what makes a watch a chronometer and it is a guarantee that a watch should achieve a certain level of accuracy.

[gregf40]

Eleven said:

I don't doubt that some do, but they aren't chronometers. The COSC certification is what makes a watch a chronometer and it is a guarantee that a watch should achieve a certain level of accuracy.

As another member pointed out - it's the same movement. So the only difference is a piece of paper - it is just as accurate.

COSC really isn't the be all and end all...you don't see PP,AP,VC sending watches to them.

[Eleven]

gregf40 said:

Eleven said:

I don't doubt that some do, but they aren't chronometers. The COSC certification is what makes a watch a chronometer and it is a guarantee that a watch should achieve a certain level of accuracy.

As another member pointed out - it's the same movement. So the only difference is a piece of paper - it is just as accurate.

COSC really isn't the be all and end all...you don't see PP,AP,VC sending watches to them.

I can give you a live example of why a COSC rating is important. I'm having a load of trouble with a Rolex at present that Rolex is not dealing with effectively. I am able to refer them to the watch's COSC rating and ask why it's not performing within those tolerances. No rating and I am reliant upon their internal interpretation of what is acceptable.

[benjj]

Ahem, don't forget to check the PH classifieds. In fact I can help link you up..

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=no...

[yeti]

gregf40 said:

As another member pointed out - it's the same movement. So the only difference is a piece of paper - it is just as accurate.

The key here is that it CAN be made to be as accurate. But it is not adjusted in 5 postions and varying temperatures which COSC demands. Yes it's the same movement, but not regulated in the same way for same length of time. It's more than a piece of paper.

There are 3 grades of ETA movements - it's the same principle.

[Riff Raff]

TimLambert7 said:

WWYD said:

I have just bought a non-date sub 14060 in near mint condition with. Box and papers/tags etc for £3.4k - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My personal advice would be to handle as many watches as you can before buying - that way you will develop a 'feel' for what is a good watch versus a pup/fake.

Box/papers essential but you need to check the serial number matches the paperwork (get the dealer to remove the bracelet to show you the serial number). Also make sure it's the correct box for the year. Personally I would rather buy one that hasn't been refurbed as you can see the general condition of the watch rather than one that has been potentially abused before being tarted up for sale.

Oh, and personally I wouldn't worry about going for the COSC (14060M) versions - my non COSC is accurate to within 1 second every 3 or 4 days.

Thanks, lots of useful advice in there.

He is doing lots of internet searching and I for one can't imagine buying a £4k used watch without seeing it! He lives in Penzance so there's pretty much zero Rolex dealers apart from Michael Spiers in Truro.

Just to get this clear in my mind, the 14060 is the non-chronometer version and the 14060M is the chrono version? Should we expect to see much price difference between the two?

At £4k, you'd be looking at a recent watch I'd imagine. Anything recent with the Rolex Rolex Rolex engraved rehaut (the ring around the inside of the crystal between it and the dial) has the serial number stamped on that, at the 6 o'clock side.

Looking at the prices of second hand 14060's, I can't help feeling that I'd stretch just a bit more and buy a new one (114060). They can be had for £4,500 here in the UK - do a search on Chrono24 - and can be imported from Europe for Just a shade over £4k. With a new watch, your Dad gets his name on the papers, and a two year manufacturer guarantee. Plus, you know that the case hasn't been interfered with by a man with a polishing mop.

[Quinny]

My JLC, heuer Silverstone, and zenith aren't COSC... but timekeeping appears no different to any of my COSC watches...
In fact, I'd say the zenith is better..