First yacht impulse purchase - tuition advice in Kent please

[Notadoctor]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 22 January 2015 at 21:07

[TTwiggy]

Google the RYA and see if they have an affliated instructor in the area (I'm sure there will be). A competent crew course should be enough for pottering about with confidence, then you can do the Day Skipper later.

What is it that you feel is lacking? Sailing ability, 'rules of the road' stuff or basic seamanship?

[Simpo Two]

TTwiggy said:

What is it that you feel is lacking? Sailing ability, 'rules of the road' stuff or basic seamanship?

If the OP is anything like me it would be 'Jeepers, what are all these strings for?'

[TTwiggy]

Simpo Two said:

TTwiggy said:

What is it that you feel is lacking? Sailing ability, 'rules of the road' stuff or basic seamanship?

If the OP is anything like me it would be 'Jeepers, what are all these strings for?'

I remember going from a little day sailor with just two halyards, a mainsheet and jib sheets and kicker to a boat that had once been raced quite competitively. So much string!

[TTwiggy]

Notadoctor said:

Thank you - "RYA affiliated instructor" sounds like the advice I was looking for.

We're fast practical learners. Tom Cunliffe's "Complete Day Skipper" book has been great, along with a few other theory books.

Yet consistency within our comfort zone, just outside the harbour, is lacking. Club members keep encouraging us newbies to join friendly races or long coastal jaunts, but that's just too great a leap for us.

I'd say it's simply justified confidence (we've plenty of natural confidence) that's lacking, with a twist of practical sailing ability.

If the boat were a car, then it's self-teaching to suddenly M25 on your own at rush hour without the hard shoulder, more dimensions and infinitely more options good and bad. An instructor to state basics - for the M25 analogy it would be "Keep your distance, no need to change down into fourth, did you notice that motorbike, calm down you're doing fine" - point out improvements and state obvious safety, style and seamanship errors would be great.

We do enough daft things on bikes, mountains and kayaks - yet somehow a yacht and the English channel deserve a respect we've not encountered before.

Of course, this time next year I'll evolve into proper yachtie and tell the next newbies, "Oh, we just stepped aboard and it came naturally, it's so easy, why don't you join us for a trip to Ramsgate tomorrow?".

Well you should feel justifiably proud that you're taking your first steps into yachting on the busiest bit of wet stuff in the world!

It's hard to offer practical advice over the net, but remember that if you think it's time to put a reef in, it's almost certainly too late, and if you're thinking about shaking one out, it's definitely too early!

[Norwegian Blue]

Dont't bother with competent crew. It takes people from not knowing which way the boat goes to knowing roughly what to do when someone says "sheet that jib in".

Day skipper takes 5 days and will give you just enough confidence to get yourself really into trouble. It is definitely worth doing, and you'll learn heaps. I don't know of any in your area but there are loads in the Solent, or you could go further afield and make a holiday of it (we went to the west coast of Scotland). Just do it somewhere tidal (i.e. not the Med), because a non-tidal ticket won't let you charter in tidal areas. DS is a lifetime qualification, so while charter might not be on your mind now it may well be in a few years.

Get a radio licence while you're at it.

[TTwiggy]

OT, but I've noticed that most Day Skipper courses are now insisting that applicants have done at least 100 hours afloat and a night passage. Is this a new thing?

[Simpo Two]

TTwiggy said:

OT, but I've noticed that most Day Skipper courses are now insisting that applicants have done at least 100 hours afloat and a night passage.

A week's cruise on the P&O Ventura worked for me!

[TTwiggy]

Simpo Two said:

TTwiggy said:

OT, but I've noticed that most Day Skipper courses are now insisting that applicants have done at least 100 hours afloat and a night passage.

A week's cruise on the P&O Ventura worked for me!

Haha! Yes, I rather thought it would be hard for them to enforce this.

[Jaguar steve]

Keep sailing you own boat where you feel comfortable but how about crewing for other club members on the longer cruises on their own boats. That way you'll get a feel for the area and pick up invaluable local knowledge and some sailing skills too. Do that alongside some training and steadily build your confidence and experience. Try some dingy sailing too, that'll really teach you how to sail.

There's hundreds of miles exploring and good sailing just round the corner in the Thames estuary, especially along the Essex and Suffolk coasts.

Just don't ever forget the very basics. Safety and weather and tides and safety.

[anonymous-user]

TTwiggy said:

OT, but I've noticed that most Day Skipper courses are now insisting that applicants have done at least 100 hours afloat and a night passage. Is this a new thing?

odd, the overnight passage used to be part of the day skipper course not a pre-requisite. do you mean 100 miles rather than 100 hours? I'd call someone like Cornish Cruising and see what they say, I doubt anyone would turn down a boat owner who has already been out from a day skipper course because they cant meet the criteria

[TTwiggy]

pablo said:

odd, the overnight passage used to be part of the day skipper course not a pre-requisite. do you mean 100 miles rather than 100 hours? I'd call someone like Cornish Cruising and see what they say, I doubt anyone would turn down a boat owner who has already been out from a day skipper course because they cant meet the criteria

Might have been 100 miles. I wasn't looking in too much detail, but when I did a bit of googling for the OP I was surprised to see all these requirements which I'm sure we're never needed before.

[Hard-Drive]

OP, absolultey, totally, utterly without question do a dinghy course first. You might question the relevance, however you hit the nail on the head with your car analogy. You would not learn how to drift a racing truck without some time in a Caterham first so you can appreciate what is going on at a more basic level. I'm not a massive fan of some elements of the RYA machine (although I am an instructor) but a level 1/2 course will give you a very good grounding in the dynamics and physics of what is going on, how it relates to your yacht and what the differences are. Try to get a provider or instructor who teaches both. "In this dinghy we are aiming to keep the boat dead flat at all times for x reasons, however your yacht will heel over, you can't sail it flat, however go too far and y happens which is slow and rubbish"

Then on your boat it's all about safely starting to push your comfort zone, which is all about experience and preparation and confidence. Also totally agree with the VHF licence suggestion too.

Good luck!

[maser_spyder]

TTwiggy said:

pablo said:

odd, the overnight passage used to be part of the day skipper course not a pre-requisite. do you mean 100 miles rather than 100 hours? I'd call someone like Cornish Cruising and see what they say, I doubt anyone would turn down a boat owner who has already been out from a day skipper course because they cant meet the criteria

Might have been 100 miles. I wasn't looking in too much detail, but when I did a bit of googling for the OP I was surprised to see all these requirements which I'm sure we're never needed before.

It's been like that a while, but I think you'll find most sailing schools are a bit more flexible based on aptitude and willingness to learn.

If you can do a bunch of the paper based leaning first, a day skipper course will be a lot more worthwhile.

This is basically how I learned. Lots of reading, lots of basic local practice without venturing too far, then day skipper, then longer distances....

[X5TUU]

When I bought my motorboat (Fletcher Zingaro 288) on impulse I had never been on anything other than a cross channel ferry.

I pottered in the marina and then just off the coast and I did the RYA international certificate of competence (ICC) and to gave me a real insight and there was sooooo much I didn't know...I'd recommend any newbie to the water to do it.

[hyperblue]

TTwiggy said:

pablo said:

odd, the overnight passage used to be part of the day skipper course not a pre-requisite. do you mean 100 miles rather than 100 hours? I'd call someone like Cornish Cruising and see what they say, I doubt anyone would turn down a boat owner who has already been out from a day skipper course because they cant meet the criteria

Might have been 100 miles. I wasn't looking in too much detail, but when I did a bit of googling for the OP I was surprised to see all these requirements which I'm sure we're never needed before.

100 miles and some night sailing seems a common pre-requisite, not sure why though. I did Day Skipper a few weeks ago (having been dinghy racing for years and yacht racing more recently - just wanted the ticket for chartering) and was slightly surprised that you could probably pass it having done almost no sailing, as long as you know the pointy end from the steery end. I had expected a higher standard of sailing skill to be required.

To OP - I'd advise taking a dinghy sailing course to give you basic sailing skills and wind awareness. It really helps later on to be able to sail instinctively without relying on instruments the whole time (some Day Skippers I've seen seemed to have no idea what point of sail they're on). Then go for your Day Skipper + VHF license and you should be in good stead. It really helps if someone else on board knows what they're doing too, saves you having to give instructions all the time.

[piecost76]

If you're able to come to Chatham then I can put you in touch with our Skipper - we race most weekends on the Medway & do some EAORA offshore events too - e.g. Holland/Belgium & back.

Will also be racing at Ramsgate Week to if you're about?

[TTwiggy]

maser_spyder said:

It's been like that a while, but I think you'll find most sailing schools are a bit more flexible based on aptitude and willingness to learn.

If you can do a bunch of the paper based leaning first, a day skipper course will be a lot more worthwhile.

This is basically how I learned. Lots of reading, lots of basic local practice without venturing too far, then day skipper, then longer distances....

OT Maser, I might be asking you for passage suggestions from Croatia in the not too distant future. I've been looking at boats down that way and have narrowed it down (I think!) to a Bav 36 or Bendy 351.

[caiss4]

Notadoctor said:

Thank you - all very appreciated.


A newbie ponder, but is it just me, or does food and drink taste better on a boat? And is it odd to pop down to the harbour for an afternoon snooze in the bobbing cosy cabin with a heavenly view?

Sounds about right. Nothing more soporific than the gentle bobbing and sound of water lapping the hull.

Good decision to do the dinghy course. I was a self-taught dinghy sailor and then went yacht sailing. I just knew I had to learn more so proceeded to do a dinghy course, buy my own dinghy, windsurfing course and finally a day skipper course. That was all about 25 years ago; one of the best investments of my time ever.

[maser_spyder]

TTwiggy said:

maser_spyder said:

It's been like that a while, but I think you'll find most sailing schools are a bit more flexible based on aptitude and willingness to learn.

If you can do a bunch of the paper based leaning first, a day skipper course will be a lot more worthwhile.

This is basically how I learned. Lots of reading, lots of basic local practice without venturing too far, then day skipper, then longer distances....

OT Maser, I might be asking you for passage suggestions from Croatia in the not too distant future. I've been looking at boats down that way and have narrowed it down (I think!) to a Bav 36 or Bendy 351.

More than welcome!

Croatia has some very well priced boats, and also has a fair bit of well used junk too. My advice would be to wait until off-season, get a flight to Zadar or Split, hire a car, and line up some viewings. Hotels and car hire will cost peanuts out of season (I hired a mid-range car for a week for £54, hotels at £18-25 a night, etc.).

You'll probably know the right boat the moment you see it. I bought from a main dealer, so the guys in the yard knew the boats inside out and had kept them very well indeed, as well as speccing them right up from new (I got a Bimini, Webasto heating, furling mainsail, loads of other bits). We had to be there and wait for Croatia to accede to the EU before we could leave, which took a bit longer than we thought.... As a result, when we left, it was a bit in desperation and we sort of high-kneed it out as fast as we could. I think it took 2 days from near Zadar to Brindisi (Italy). With hindsight, I should have anticipated that and built in a bit of extra time to work through at least some of the islands. To be honest, I found Croatia quite perfect for location (1000-odd islands to explore), but I couldn't warm to the people, it was just all a bit sullen. A bit like sailing in Wales, I guess.

If you buy in Croatia, be prepared for a HUGE amount of paperwork, getting things notarised (costs £7 in Croatia and £95 in the UK, it's cheaper to fly out there and sign it yourself!). It's a massively beaurocratic country, they really do love their paperwork.

Southern Italy was, well, odd. Incredibly mafia controlled, very quiet, and not a whole lot going on. We high-kneed it through there too.

If you're heading back, we missed Sicily, but I've heard it's awesome, as well as Sardinia, so I'd recommend making the trip slowly and taking in as much as you can. I said I would go back, but in all honesty, that's pie in the sky unless I find myself homeless again.

I made the trip with HideTheElephants, so no doubt he has some recollections too!

I intended to summer as far as France, then truck over to the UK, but I'm now glad I didn't. The Med bug has bitten, we've done a second summer here (currently in Agde tonight, heading to Barcelona for the weekend), and planning to winter in France and head back out here in May next year, to do six months (picking up all the bits I missed last time )

Drop me a PM if you want the benefit of my experience, such as it was.