Diluting the AMG brand?

[Martin_M]

As a bmw M135i owner I'm well aware of the feelings amongst some 'proper M car' owners that the likes of the M sport division dilutes what the M stands for.

Just been reading on-line and see that Mercedes are now planning to introduce a range of AMG Sport models to sit below the 'proper AMG' cars.

Thoughts?

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercede...

[JEA1K]

Nothing new really, everyone else does it so why not. They already have the AMG sport line in C Class anyway ... kind of like the M-Sport/S Line range.

[Ari]

Never understood why manufacturers want to kill the kudos of a really strong brand. As above, BMW have done it, so have Audi, now Mercedes.

It just demonstrates that not everyone in marketing understands brand values.

It has been going on for years though. I'm old enough to remember when Rover was a prestige marque. Maggie Thatcher was driven around in one, and it was seen as the bank manager's car, the executive's car, only one rung down from Jaguar (the chairman's car) and a credible alternative to BMW and the like.

Then one day someone thought 'hey, lets stick Rover badges on small cheap cars and everyone will buy them as they will like the prestige'. Immediately killing the kudos that went with the badge and making Rover a Ford/Vauxhall/Citroen level car.

Same is happening with 'M', 'AMG' etc. Used to mean something, now utter ubiquity makes them as meaningless as sticking a 'Sport' badge on a Corsa.

[HotJambalaya]

yes, irritating! -Especially seeing diesels with AMG plastered all over them!

Mind you, BMW drivers have it worse. I was in traffic the other day, behind a guy with the reg "M3 LOT" M badges all over the car, top down, posing with his shades and gold chains. Shame it was a 325! What a tool!

[IanA2]

Mercedes are just another high volume car manufacturer doing what high volume car manufacturers do. Now I wouldn't touch a post 2000 MB. Prefer the build quality of Lexus & Infiniti these days.

Pity, they used to make wonderful cars; and the AMG's were a bit special. Oh well....that's progress.

[StephenP]

The writer of that article must have been hiding under a stone for the last couple of years! If he'd bothered to make the trip to his local dealer he'd have seen AMG Sport models in many of the range. Lazy journalism again.

Personally doesn't bother me. Our new GL is classified as an AMG Sport but it doesn't say it anywhere on the car. It just means it gained the same body kit, wheel size, brake size and some other tweaks as found on the GL63 AMG.

Meanwhile, we have a CL63 (the proper N/A 6.3, not the newer pretenders) sat next to the GL in the garage and that is a truly awesome vehicle and a worthy replacement for the CL55 we have before it.

Both cars are superbly well built and spec'd, reliable and built to last (as was our previous MY07 GL). I wouldn't touch a Lexus or Infiniti of the same vehicle class - they just don't compare in my eyes, sorry.

People who know their cars and care about the AMG brand are more than capable of knowing a true AMG versus any standard car with AMG bits on. Those who can't tell the difference, won't care anyway ....

[JEA1K]

Ari said:

Never understood why manufacturers want to kill the kudos of a really strong brand. As above, BMW have done it, so have Audi, now Mercedes.

It just demonstrates that not everyone in marketing understands brand values.

It has been going on for years though. I'm old enough to remember when Rover was a prestige marque. Maggie Thatcher was driven around in one, and it was seen as the bank manager's car, the executive's car, only one rung down from Jaguar (the chairman's car) and a credible alternative to BMW and the like.

Then one day someone thought 'hey, lets stick Rover badges on small cheap cars and everyone will buy them as they will like the prestige'. Immediately killing the kudos that went with the badge and making Rover a Ford/Vauxhall/Citroen level car.

Same is happening with 'M', 'AMG' etc. Used to mean something, now utter ubiquity makes them as meaningless as sticking a 'Sport' badge on a Corsa.

But its all about selling volume, why would they care about anything else?

Simple formula, create a halo range and then dilute it by creating a cost effective sub range by using the illusion that you're getting a halo car for less money.

Also see the 1980 Alegro Vanden Plas and 1985 Metro Vanden Plas.

[IanA2]

StephenP said:

The writer of that article must have been hiding under a stone for the last couple of years! If he'd bothered to make the trip to his local dealer he'd have seen AMG Sport models in many of the range. Lazy journalism again.

Personally doesn't bother me. Our new GL is classified as an AMG Sport but it doesn't say it anywhere on the car. It just means it gained the same body kit, wheel size, brake size and some other tweaks as found on the GL63 AMG.

Meanwhile, we have a CL63 (the proper N/A 6.3, not the newer pretenders) sat next to the GL in the garage and that is a truly awesome vehicle and a worthy replacement for the CL55 we have before it.

Both cars are superbly well built and spec'd, reliable and built to last (as was our previous MY07 GL). I wouldn't touch a Lexus or Infiniti of the same vehicle class - they just don't compare in my eyes, sorry.

People who know their cars and care about the AMG brand are more than capable of knowing a true AMG versus any standard car with AMG bits on. Those who can't tell the difference, won't care anyway ....

Horses for course and all that, if you're happy that's fine. I'm not trying to start an argument.

Having owned and driven a wide range of MB's over the last twenty years (but never a GL) and still have two parked outside, I can honestly say the that I watched the engineering integrity drop year on year.

That cannot be said of Lexus, nor I think of Infiniti, although they are (sort of) the new guys on the block.

I think the customer satisfaction reviews and the percentage breakdown figures year on year seem to bear this out.

Let me put this another way, if your cars had been built to earlier MB standards, and then sent off to Affalterbach, they would be even better.

[IanA2]

JEA1K said:

But its all about selling volume, why would they care about anything else?

Simple formula, create a halo range and then dilute it by creating a cost effective sub range by using the illusion that you're getting a halo car for less money.

Also see the 1980 Alegro Vanden Plas and 1985 Metro Vanden Plas.

Yup...that's it.

[tonys]

HotJambalaya said:

yes, irritating! -Especially seeing diesels with AMG plastered all over them!

Mind you, BMW drivers have it worse. I was in traffic the other day, behind a guy with the reg "M3 LOT" M badges all over the car, top down, posing with his shades and gold chains. Shame it was a 325! What a tool!

The world of number plate 'meanings' is complex ; it's almost as if any number is supposed to mean any letter and vice versa, So, he wasn't actually trying to tell the world that he had an M3, it was meant to be read as an 'E', as in 'this is Me Lot', so that you could feel sorry for him as that was all he had

[StephenP]

IanA2 said:

Let me put this another way, if your cars had been built to earlier MB standards, and then sent off to Affalterbach, they would be even better.

Can't argue with that

I agree that a, for example, a pre-2000 SL will have been built better and with better materials ... and I admit to be tempted whilst they are still cheap! Some of the cars from 2000 to 2003/4 were chronic, particularly in the quality of metal used! Things have improved a lot and the range is certainly better but I think we are a long way from getting back to the days of 'money no object' design and materials ....

[vinnie83]

According to the article, these new cars will have slightly tuned engines too.

I think this offers a good stepping stone or middle ground for those who really would have liked an AMG but maybe the idea of a 6.2 or 5.5 litre engine isn't viable.

They still sit way below the actual AMG models - 100bhp below in the case of the C class mentioned.

[theaxe]

IanA2 said:

JEA1K said:

But its all about selling volume, why would they care about anything else?

Simple formula, create a halo range and then dilute it by creating a cost effective sub range by using the illusion that you're getting a halo car for less money.

Also see the 1980 Alegro Vanden Plas and 1985 Metro Vanden Plas.

Yup...that's it.

It'll be interesting to see if 'Black Series' suffers the same fate in the long term.

[IanA2]

theaxe said:

IanA2 said:

JEA1K said:

But its all about selling volume, why would they care about anything else?

Simple formula, create a halo range and then dilute it by creating a cost effective sub range by using the illusion that you're getting a halo car for less money.

Also see the 1980 Alegro Vanden Plas and 1985 Metro Vanden Plas.

Yup...that's it.

It'll be interesting to see if 'Black Series' suffers the same fate in the long term.

Arguably Black Series is the new AMG, so yup....in a while it too will be diluted in favour of the new XYD series

[GTIR]

I've got an E250 diesel saloon with AMG mats.

To be fair I wasn't going to pay £100's of quids for a set and the salesman kindly nicked them out of one their own demo cars.

But yes, very sad seeing a diesel with AMG badges on. I saw a E220 with V12 badges on the wings once. Why!

[vinnie83]

GTIR said:

I've got an E250 diesel saloon with AMG mats.

To be fair I wasn't going to pay £100's of quids for a set and the salesman kindly nicked them out of one their own demo cars.

But yes, very sad seeing a diesel with AMG badges on. I saw a E220 with V12 badges on the wings once. Why!

That's a whole different matter. Anyone who badges their car up to a higher model is a tt.

[DJRC]

Apparently the wife's 350cdi dog hauler is coming with AMG floormats. Perplexed I asked why...its part of an AMG sport spec or something.

I carried on looking perplexed and then turned the key of my own and frankly stopped giving a damn about her silly car

[Foliage]

I have a 07 CLK 320CDI AMG Sport, awesome car.

[GTIR]

DJRC said:

Apparently the wife's 350cdi dog hauler is coming with AMG floormats. Perplexed I asked why...its part of an AMG sport spec or something.

I carried on looking perplexed and then turned the key of my own and frankly stopped giving a damn about her silly car

I hope you made her suffer that night whilst in bed.

(I don't mean you snoring)

[tch911]

Ari said:

Never understood why manufacturers want to kill the kudos of a really strong brand. As above, BMW have done it, so have Audi, now Mercedes.

It just demonstrates that not everyone in marketing understands brand values.

Same is happening with 'M', 'AMG' etc. Used to mean something, now utter ubiquity makes them as meaningless as sticking a 'Sport' badge on a Corsa.

If I may, as an AMG owner, I am not sure I agree. I buy an AMG for the engineering pure and simple. Sure the 6.3 badges on the wings make me smile (even if it is a 6.2) and I even like the AMG logos on the tail and the interior. However, I bought my car for the ridiculous noise it makes when i start her up in the morning (with the door open, obviously), for the sheer breadth of talent the car has in it's Jekyl and Hyde guises, for the endless punch of torque it has, for the knowledge that the engine was built by hand, by one man.

Do I mind when I see something that is obviously not an AMG sporting the badge? Not really, I can tell if isn't real. Do I mind if someone has even gone to the trouble of installing the subtly flared wings of my car and the quad exhausts, only to be given away by the obvious sound of a 6 cylinder engine. Again, not really. Isn't imitation, the highest form of flattery.

AMG means so much to so many people. For me, it is Q performance, walking (vaguely) quietly with a big stick. For others it is driving a matte white G63 with diamond cut, black powder coated wheels down Sloane Street. Each to their own, I say.

I think Mercedes have rightly seen the phenomenal success that Audi have had with their S-line cars. BMW forlornly jumped on the bandwagon as well. I would hope that most people on PH could always tell a genuine C63, RS4, M4 from a badged-up younger sibling.

Thinking about it, the manufacturers have made far more effort in differetiating their halo models. Think back to the E36 M3. You coudl take any 318iS, buy the Autovogue M3 kit and fit the bumpers, mirrors, side trim, badges, gearstick, etc and you would have a genuinely unmistakable M3 (with a four pot). These days to do the same, you have to buy metal wheel arches, a new bonnet, etc, it's a far more complicated process.

Monologue over but as I said earlier, imitation is the highest form of flattery. I love my AMG and cannot think of any car of the 30 I have ever owned that I feel so strongly about. I wouldn't say the brand is devalued in the slightest.

And I am sorry, anyone who thinks that a Black is now the real AMG, why don't you try 487 bhp in a C-Class before you pass comment. I think you'll find that a Black is most definitely AMG++.