Automatic Gearbox Servicing - Response from ZF
Discussion
Hi everyone
I wanted to share a response with you all about ZF gearbox servicing that I received. I enquired about oil and filter change on my wifes 120D auto, given it's around 72,000 miles. They recommend oil and filter changes between 60,000 and 80,000 miles (quite a range!). Some months ago, I asked BMW themselves about this matter, who stated they did not have any servicing recomendations although they know some owners do change at 100,000 miles, although it is not a strict service item.
For those of you with automatic transmissions that are ZF-built, perhaps that is of some useful information for you. A short PDF that was attached stated the intervals apply to 4,5 and 6 speed transmissions.
I will certainly be looking to have the trans oil changed along with the next engine oil change.
cheers
TD
I wanted to share a response with you all about ZF gearbox servicing that I received. I enquired about oil and filter change on my wifes 120D auto, given it's around 72,000 miles. They recommend oil and filter changes between 60,000 and 80,000 miles (quite a range!). Some months ago, I asked BMW themselves about this matter, who stated they did not have any servicing recomendations although they know some owners do change at 100,000 miles, although it is not a strict service item.
For those of you with automatic transmissions that are ZF-built, perhaps that is of some useful information for you. A short PDF that was attached stated the intervals apply to 4,5 and 6 speed transmissions.
I will certainly be looking to have the trans oil changed along with the next engine oil change.
cheers
TD
You will find that most modern automatic transmissions are "sealed for life", have no user servicable parts etc.
I went through the whole service book for my Mustang and could only find things relating to a CVT 'box. So I phoned a Ford dealer in the US who said that they have 150,000 mile overhaul intervals (5R55S box for reference, similar to the one used in the S-type Jag IIRC).
So most dealers won't even consider it a serviceable item (unless it breaks prematurely) as it will out last the car. That said i won't be leaving it that long until I get an overhaul done.
I went through the whole service book for my Mustang and could only find things relating to a CVT 'box. So I phoned a Ford dealer in the US who said that they have 150,000 mile overhaul intervals (5R55S box for reference, similar to the one used in the S-type Jag IIRC).
So most dealers won't even consider it a serviceable item (unless it breaks prematurely) as it will out last the car. That said i won't be leaving it that long until I get an overhaul done.
PanzerCommander said:
You will find that most modern automatic transmissions are "sealed for life", have no user servicable parts etc.
I went through the whole service book for my Mustang and could only find things relating to a CVT 'box. So I phoned a Ford dealer in the US who said that they have 150,000 mile overhaul intervals (5R55S box for reference, similar to the one used in the S-type Jag IIRC).
So most dealers won't even consider it a serviceable item (unless it breaks prematurely) as it will out last the car. That said i won't be leaving it that long until I get an overhaul done.
Sadly when they say "sealed for life" it seems to mean "sealed for the warranty period" then you're on your own.I went through the whole service book for my Mustang and could only find things relating to a CVT 'box. So I phoned a Ford dealer in the US who said that they have 150,000 mile overhaul intervals (5R55S box for reference, similar to the one used in the S-type Jag IIRC).
So most dealers won't even consider it a serviceable item (unless it breaks prematurely) as it will out last the car. That said i won't be leaving it that long until I get an overhaul done.
oilslick said:
Sadly when they say "sealed for life" it seems to mean "sealed for the warranty period" then you're on your own.
Quite, I dread to think what the insides of my transmission are going to look like when I do get it sent for an overhaul, well a full re-build with nice shiny race parts and a higher stall torque converter 
I changed the sump and filter assembly and oil on my ZF 6HP26 myself using a kit from Bristol Transmissions, an £8 infrared laser pointed thermometer from eBay and a bulb type hand pump and non-return valve in a hose.
I did it at 70,000 miles or thereabouts and the hardest part was getting the undertray off.
The old oil came ouy dark brown, the new ZF oil went in straw colour.
There was an obvious and immediate improvement in the speed and smoothness of the gear changes both up and down.
It cost buttons and was really easy. There's not really a reason not to do it.
I did it at 70,000 miles or thereabouts and the hardest part was getting the undertray off.
The old oil came ouy dark brown, the new ZF oil went in straw colour.
There was an obvious and immediate improvement in the speed and smoothness of the gear changes both up and down.
It cost buttons and was really easy. There's not really a reason not to do it.
Qwert1e said:
Absolute cobblers. A myth that gets trotted out time and time again.
What's the oil change interval on your differential?
I believe it's an inspection every 30k miles. I changed it pretty much as soon as I got the car.What's the oil change interval on your differential?
ETA: So do you believe that ATF will last the life of the car? Because the burnt brown gunk I drained from my transmission would suggest that it doesn't last forever...
Edited by oilslick on Thursday 7th August 15:00
It's extraordinary how many people live in hope that a cheap fluid change will fix an expensively knackered transmission.
Manufacturers use "sealed for life" simply because by the time the fluid's knackered the transmission is almost certainly knackered. However, few would argue against a preventive fluid change at, say, 10 years or 100,000 miles.
The key things to remember are that engine oil has to deal with combustion temperatures and combustion contaminants. In contrast your transmission fluid is just sloshing about happily, a bit like coolant. If there's anything in the fluid, it's bits of transmission - mostly friction material.
The one thing guaranteed to knacker an auto box is overheating. In other words, abuse.
Manufacturers use "sealed for life" simply because by the time the fluid's knackered the transmission is almost certainly knackered. However, few would argue against a preventive fluid change at, say, 10 years or 100,000 miles.
The key things to remember are that engine oil has to deal with combustion temperatures and combustion contaminants. In contrast your transmission fluid is just sloshing about happily, a bit like coolant. If there's anything in the fluid, it's bits of transmission - mostly friction material.
The one thing guaranteed to knacker an auto box is overheating. In other words, abuse.
Qwert1e said:
It's extraordinary how many people live in hope that a cheap fluid change will fix an expensively knackered transmission.abuse.
Totally agree - if the box is exhibitting major faults a fluid change is unlikely to heal themIf it's just a little rougher on the changes and they slur a little more my experience is that a fluid change can really work wonders
Qwert1e said:
Manufacturers use "sealed for life" simply because by the time the fluid's knackered the transmission is almost certainly knackered. However, few would argue against a preventive fluid change at, say, 10 years or 100,000 miles.abuse.
Agree - changing the fluid before it's knackered and as a result kippers the box I would say is essential if you want to keep the car - if it's just a beater then you takes your chancesegor110 said:
dumb ass question but how do you overheat a auto gear box?
i just stick it in drive and let it get on with it, however i have changed the fluid in my n reg bongo and it all still works fine.
If you mash the pedal at every traffic light, use full kickdown at every oppo then the fluid will suffer from the heat generated and burn. AT's will take a lot of punishment. ATF is normally Ribena colour but will go brown/red when overheated. What normally happends is the box enters limp home mode.i just stick it in drive and let it get on with it, however i have changed the fluid in my n reg bongo and it all still works fine.
Changing oil in an auto.
Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
Qwert1e said:
It's extraordinary how many people live in hope that a cheap fluid change will fix an expensively knackered transmission.
Not sure if you have seen that Wheeler Dealers Porsche Boxster episode...When Mike bought the car it had been on the owners drive way for 4 years apparently with a broken gearbox, but seemingly when Mike drove it, it worked in tiptronic mode perfectly but when he selected manual mode it started slipping, then when Ed looked at it he simply changed the gearbox oil and filter and it was all fixed.
So it does work lol. Never hurts to try it rather than trying to do the more expensive/complex repairs. Sometimes the cheap option/the seemingly obvious fix is the one that works!
V8 FOU said:
Changing oil in an auto.
Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
On my LS400 I just disconnected the ATF hose from the bottom of the radiator, ran the engine until I'd drained around a litre, topped it up with the same amount. Rinse and repeat until all the fluid has been changed.Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
V8 FOU said:
Changing oil in an auto.
Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
The ZF 6 holds 8 litres of oil. If you just drop the sump you'll get around 2 litres out. If you let it drip out overnight and the orientation is right I've found you get around 6 litres out. Obviously you'll never drain the torque converter. Flushing it fully is best but changing 6 litres of it does make a bit improvement. I'd agree that simply whipping off the old sump and fitting the new straight away then refilling is a waste of time though.Now there's a myth!. The average change on a auto box only changes a few litres - you cannot begin to change all the oil. At best dropping the oil pan will change 20-30% of the oil.
If you want to do a "proper" job you will need to find someone with a flushing machine. This will flush the gearbox and replace ALL the oil. Very worthwhile. You are usually looking at £200 to do this, and worth every penny. I get the R Rover done every 20K, the Bentley is going in soon......
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