The Tornado F2 ADV fighter. Did it turn out to be rubbish?
Discussion
Following on from the Conspiracy thread and my posting about the Stealth fighter programme, it took me back to a time (late70s to late 80s) when I was probably more interested in aircraft than cars.
And I remember the massive rows that were going on at the time, especially in the specialist press, that were saying how rubbish the ADV variant was going to be and how open it left us to attack from the Reds massing behind the border. The general answer was also posted as we should be buying a mix of F-15s/16s and hang the expense if we didn't want to be at the beck and call of the Russians as they swanned through the streets of our capital believing that they owned it all.....
hmmmm....
Anyway, we all heard the stories of the
Blue Circle radar system but I never seemed to hear how well it really would have done in combat against the MiGs and the Sukhois? Or even how well it did against our allies aircraft including the ones we possibly should have bought.
Now its dead and gone, can anyone enlighten me?
And I remember the massive rows that were going on at the time, especially in the specialist press, that were saying how rubbish the ADV variant was going to be and how open it left us to attack from the Reds massing behind the border. The general answer was also posted as we should be buying a mix of F-15s/16s and hang the expense if we didn't want to be at the beck and call of the Russians as they swanned through the streets of our capital believing that they owned it all.....
hmmmm....
Anyway, we all heard the stories of the
Blue Circle radar system but I never seemed to hear how well it really would have done in combat against the MiGs and the Sukhois? Or even how well it did against our allies aircraft including the ones we possibly should have bought.Now its dead and gone, can anyone enlighten me?
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Friday 8th August 07:59
Eric Mc said:
The F2 was only ever an interim aircraft. It was quickly re[placed by the F3 - which did the job it was designed to do.
Binned FAR to early, avionics had been updated far beyond original spec, the aircraft had matured into a formidable interceptor with the systems giving the crews unrivaled SA. Pretty swift too, try confirmed 870kts low level [no thermal limits on the tonka].
At the end the F3 had AMRAAM, ASRAAM, Link 16, ALARM.
(For Eric: Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile, Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile, Link 16 secure encrypted Data Link with connectivity to things like the E3D Sentry giving the crew the total air picture = hugely enhanced Situational Awareness, Air Launched Anti Radiation Missile for suppression of enemy air defences).
So, while not particularly good in the 'knifefight in a telephone box' scenario, it was an extremely capable Air Defender
And, as Mojocvh said, binned far too early.
Oh, and it was faster than both the Lightning and the F4.
(For Eric: Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile, Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile, Link 16 secure encrypted Data Link with connectivity to things like the E3D Sentry giving the crew the total air picture = hugely enhanced Situational Awareness, Air Launched Anti Radiation Missile for suppression of enemy air defences).
So, while not particularly good in the 'knifefight in a telephone box' scenario, it was an extremely capable Air Defender
And, as Mojocvh said, binned far too early.
Oh, and it was faster than both the Lightning and the F4.
F3 Meteor AAM launch
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/-meteo...
Edited by Mojocvh on Friday 8th August 13:44
Yertis said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
And, as Mojocvh said, binned far too early.
Was it though? Would it really address a credible threat, that the Typhoon cannot? Seems to me that it was an aircraft of its time that did the job it was designed to do. Now I am more than happy that the RAF has a aircraft of the performance of the Typhoon for it's crews.
I'm not so happy that their roles have been expanded away from air defense [at the expense of dedicated ground attack Tornadoes] Even from a crew currency standpoint there has to be skill dilution.
My ideal would have been a joint force of F3 and Typhoon to defend the UK's shores.
Can I ask if you are aware of the slashing of RAF squadron numbers?
How many aircraft do you think are available to defend the UK?
Mojocvh said:
It's job, like any UK air defense aircraft, is to destroy incoming raiders before they can launch stand off cruise missiles.
Now I am more than happy that the RAF has a aircraft of the performance of the Typhoon for it's crews.
I'm not so happy that their roles have been expanded away from air defense [at the expense of dedicated ground attack Tornadoes] Even from a crew currency standpoint there has to be skill dilution.
My ideal would have been a joint force of F3 and Typhoon to defend the UK's shores.
Can I ask if you are aware of the slashing of RAF squadron numbers?
How many aircraft do you think are available to defend the UK?
Probably about four, at a push. Now I am more than happy that the RAF has a aircraft of the performance of the Typhoon for it's crews.
I'm not so happy that their roles have been expanded away from air defense [at the expense of dedicated ground attack Tornadoes] Even from a crew currency standpoint there has to be skill dilution.
My ideal would have been a joint force of F3 and Typhoon to defend the UK's shores.
Can I ask if you are aware of the slashing of RAF squadron numbers?
How many aircraft do you think are available to defend the UK?
Force reduction is a different question though and one upon which I'm sure we'd agree. I was just wondering whether it's worth keeping an old system going because it has been an effective deterrent against what is now a much diminished threat, when/if we have broadly similar capability in a much newer, more flexible system. Economic realities are inescapable.
To come back to your numbers point my fear is that Government thinking is in the realm of what we can get away with today this minute, rather than what might we reasonably need to address a range of unthinkable circumstances. Again, economic realities are inescapable but we might bring in the question of Government spending priorities and once again, judging by what I've read of your posts over the last quite a few years now, I think we'd be in agreement.
Yertis said:
Mojocvh said:
It's job, like any UK air defense aircraft, is to destroy incoming raiders before they can launch stand off cruise missiles.
Now I am more than happy that the RAF has a aircraft of the performance of the Typhoon for it's crews.
I'm not so happy that their roles have been expanded away from air defense [at the expense of dedicated ground attack Tornadoes] Even from a crew currency standpoint there has to be skill dilution.
My ideal would have been a joint force of F3 and Typhoon to defend the UK's shores.
Can I ask if you are aware of the slashing of RAF squadron numbers?
How many aircraft do you think are available to defend the UK?
Probably about four, at a push. Now I am more than happy that the RAF has a aircraft of the performance of the Typhoon for it's crews.
I'm not so happy that their roles have been expanded away from air defense [at the expense of dedicated ground attack Tornadoes] Even from a crew currency standpoint there has to be skill dilution.
My ideal would have been a joint force of F3 and Typhoon to defend the UK's shores.
Can I ask if you are aware of the slashing of RAF squadron numbers?
How many aircraft do you think are available to defend the UK?
Force reduction is a different question though and one upon which I'm sure we'd agree. I was just wondering whether it's worth keeping an old system going because it has been an effective deterrent against what is now a much diminished threat, when/if we have broadly similar capability in a much newer, more flexible system. Economic realities are inescapable.
To come back to your numbers point my fear is that Government thinking is in the realm of what we can get away with today this minute, rather than what might we reasonably need to address a range of unthinkable circumstances. Again, economic realities are inescapable but we might bring in the question of Government spending priorities and once again, judging by what I've read of your posts over the last quite a few years now, I think we'd be in agreement.
Or perhaps not.
Mojocvh said:
When [note when, not if] Russian forces invade Eastern Ukraine, that may prove to be a turning point for our governmental masters.
Or perhaps not.
Russia will be ensuring the safety or Russians in Paris before our numpties in charge start to realise that maybe decimating defence wasn't entirely the right thing to do. At which they will commission a report that blames the MoD entirely. Or perhaps not.
Edited by Godalmighty83 on Friday 8th August 18:51
si-h said:
We are told the Typhoon is superior to the F3, my question is how superior ?
Can somebody give a scale or a description ?
To put it simply, there isn't a single thing that the Typhoon doesn't do better than the Tornado. Faster, more reliable, bigger weapons load, longer range, better ceiling. Can somebody give a scale or a description ?
williamp said:
No-w that was something completely different brenflys777 said:
williamp said:
No-w that was something completely different Let's just say that I've heard better translations...
'Catagories coming out of the Riley'
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