The right to argue the toss?
Discussion
Right then.....here's a hot potato...
As drivers...is there any point to 'arguing the toss' with the BiB at the roadside
For example...clear cut speeding offence, fog lights in clear conditions, contravene red lights (caught on police car video, etc etc etc...
The comments of "Hitting the motorists in the pocket again" "I hope you're happy now you've cost me money", "You should be catching rapists/burglars/thieves, etc".....
Is there a point? Is it to vent your anger and if so, should you be surprised if suddenly you are arrested? Is it anger at the system, and if so, is the BiB on the street really the person to address your complaints to?
As drivers...is there any point to 'arguing the toss' with the BiB at the roadside
For example...clear cut speeding offence, fog lights in clear conditions, contravene red lights (caught on police car video, etc etc etc...
The comments of "Hitting the motorists in the pocket again" "I hope you're happy now you've cost me money", "You should be catching rapists/burglars/thieves, etc".....
Is there a point? Is it to vent your anger and if so, should you be surprised if suddenly you are arrested? Is it anger at the system, and if so, is the BiB on the street really the person to address your complaints to?
parrot of doom said:
The best way to deal with BiB is to be polite, courteous, and respectful.
Always behaved like this when stopped for speeding, after all it's a fair cop.... 50% success rate so far.... Although the wife still has a 100% success rate - I've always wondered what she says or does differently to me!...
Depends.
If the copper is only explaining what you have done wrong (in his opinion) then polite listening is the order of the day, on the basis he may accept your polite behaviour as reasonable enough for the alleged offence and let you of with a warning etc.
If OTOH he suggests he is going to issue a FPN and you reckon you havent committed the alleged crime then that is the time to argue the toss, although it will most likely do you no good there and then but best saved for court.
If the copper is only explaining what you have done wrong (in his opinion) then polite listening is the order of the day, on the basis he may accept your polite behaviour as reasonable enough for the alleged offence and let you of with a warning etc.
If OTOH he suggests he is going to issue a FPN and you reckon you havent committed the alleged crime then that is the time to argue the toss, although it will most likely do you no good there and then but best saved for court.
No Discretion said:
While I commend your good attitude....There is a train of thought that only 'decent coppers' are the ones that let you off.
If the copper had given you 3 points and a £60 fine, it wouldn't have made him less a copper...In my humble opinion anyway...
Depends who catches you and what mood they are in, and how you treat them I guess. If you treat them politely and with respect then you are more likely to be treated leniently...
stepej said:
Although the wife still has a 100% success rate - I've always wondered what she says or does differently to me!...
Hmmm - I've noticed this too. Twice the wife has been stopped (same place each time silly moo!) well over the speed limit by the french plod. They saw that she was a cute blonde in a family Espace, all the kids were properly strapped in and let her off.
I have no doubt that had that been me in the porker at the same speed they would have reamed me.
hmm. Been stopped (I think) 4 times and followed once by the police.
1st time.....on a driving lesson!. Downhill, lights at the bottom, tootling along at 25-30 (as you do on a lesson) lights went to amber about 30 yards infront. I wanted to go through, he wanted me to stop. The car wasn't dual control. He pulled the handbrake. Screeched through the red lights and came to a stalled halt in the middle blocking all the other traffic. pulled off again (after the 'secure the car, check all round blah blah blah) and plod was behind me within 30 seconds. Started flashing his headlights to pull over. I did. stopped the engine, wound down the window. plod: 'good afternoon what happened there then?' Me: 'this t**w pulled the handbrake'
I fell out with the driving instructor shortly after this, and went to BSM instead. No points, just a stern talking to us both.
2nd time speeding. 47MPH in a 30 at 11:30pm ish.
empty road. Plod said that he wouldn't have touched me up to 40MPH. Primary plod was a decdent chap, his passenger seat gorrila maintained a scowl through his own rear view mirror.
Fair enough.
3rd time flagged down in a NSL
very angry plod , swearing and saying that the way I was driving he though I was his colleague. ?????
Got a bollocking for that. ??
4th time driving like a complete t*t in Leeds in my first GTi. Rush hour, doing a good 70MPH in a 40 on the inner ring, slowed to 60 for the 30MPH zone.
Motorbike plod followed me into the work carpark, and through the security barrier (card operated) Knocked on the passenger window and shouted and shouted with his helmet on, which was actually very quiet!.
VERY angry with me. Rant rant rant rant rant!! - you get the idea. He then got another (presumably serious) call. Shouted at me even more then angrilly left to be faced with a barrier he couldn't get out of.
Seems quite irresponsible now, but I just left him there stranded. Actually feel a bit bad about that thinking about it, but in my youthful days it seemed a funny thing to do at the time.
Also got followed in same GTi by the police showing off a bit. ie tear arsing about, but not actualy breaking the speed limit and staying within the highway code. eg belting it up to 70 when you hit the NSL sign. Braking to 30 for the 30's.
I pulled into a petrol station and they followed me in and got out. When I started to fill with fuel they just glowered at me for 2 minutes before driving off.
All in all therefore, not really that bad at all, and could have been justifiably much worse.
1st time.....on a driving lesson!. Downhill, lights at the bottom, tootling along at 25-30 (as you do on a lesson) lights went to amber about 30 yards infront. I wanted to go through, he wanted me to stop. The car wasn't dual control. He pulled the handbrake. Screeched through the red lights and came to a stalled halt in the middle blocking all the other traffic. pulled off again (after the 'secure the car, check all round blah blah blah) and plod was behind me within 30 seconds. Started flashing his headlights to pull over. I did. stopped the engine, wound down the window. plod: 'good afternoon what happened there then?' Me: 'this t**w pulled the handbrake'
I fell out with the driving instructor shortly after this, and went to BSM instead. No points, just a stern talking to us both.
2nd time speeding. 47MPH in a 30 at 11:30pm ish.
empty road. Plod said that he wouldn't have touched me up to 40MPH. Primary plod was a decdent chap, his passenger seat gorrila maintained a scowl through his own rear view mirror.
Fair enough.
3rd time flagged down in a NSL
very angry plod , swearing and saying that the way I was driving he though I was his colleague. ?????
Got a bollocking for that. ??
4th time driving like a complete t*t in Leeds in my first GTi. Rush hour, doing a good 70MPH in a 40 on the inner ring, slowed to 60 for the 30MPH zone.
Motorbike plod followed me into the work carpark, and through the security barrier (card operated) Knocked on the passenger window and shouted and shouted with his helmet on, which was actually very quiet!.
VERY angry with me. Rant rant rant rant rant!! - you get the idea. He then got another (presumably serious) call. Shouted at me even more then angrilly left to be faced with a barrier he couldn't get out of.
Seems quite irresponsible now, but I just left him there stranded. Actually feel a bit bad about that thinking about it, but in my youthful days it seemed a funny thing to do at the time.
Also got followed in same GTi by the police showing off a bit. ie tear arsing about, but not actualy breaking the speed limit and staying within the highway code. eg belting it up to 70 when you hit the NSL sign. Braking to 30 for the 30's.
I pulled into a petrol station and they followed me in and got out. When I started to fill with fuel they just glowered at me for 2 minutes before driving off.
All in all therefore, not really that bad at all, and could have been justifiably much worse.
nel said:
Although the wife still has a 100% success rate - I've always wondered what she says or does differently to me!...
Hmmm - I've noticed this too. Twice the wife has been stopped (same place each time silly moo!) well over the speed limit by the french plod. They saw that she was a cute blonde in a family Espace, all the kids were properly strapped in and let her off.
I have no doubt that had that been me in the porker at the same speed they would have reamed me.
The sex of the driver...isn't of any relevance with me...other factors have been, but sex isn't....(I'm sure it could be with some BiB..)
parrot of doom said:
The best way to deal with BiB is to be polite, courteous, and respectful.
Oh
Chap who I did the RoSPA with, ex TrafPol, said that if the first words out of your mouth are a big fat 'I'm sorry' and you look genuinely worried by the prospect of pointage then chances are you'll get a warning rather than a ticket...
I agree with the posts about the behaviour of the driver having a direct effect on the outcome of the police officers decision..
Yet we still have some woolly jumper/lentil suckers on here who have complained that decisions like that are wrong by the police and it's stereotyping etc etc..
Another angle.
What about the BiB has decided, for whatever reason that he's going to issue you with a ticket...
Now, is it ok to bleat, whinge and whine?
Yet we still have some woolly jumper/lentil suckers on here who have complained that decisions like that are wrong by the police and it's stereotyping etc etc..
Another angle.
What about the BiB has decided, for whatever reason that he's going to issue you with a ticket...
Now, is it ok to bleat, whinge and whine?
Thinking about this, I was on earlies over the weekend. Sunday morning, drink drive checksite set up, with me as a "spotter" down the road.
Cyclist goes past, shouts "Haven't you got anything better to do you
tosser?"
I stop him, and he is now the proud owner of my autograph on an £80.00 penalty notice for disorder. He wanted to argue the toss with me, even after I'd explained that I wasn't speed trapping, and he accused me of lying!
I did point out to him as a cyclist that he was more vulnerable than some other road users, and would come off worst in a collision with a drink driver.
Cue massive rant from him that I was a "lying fat 'See You Next Tuesday' ", I had no right to stop him, I had no right to "do" people for speeding, he pays my wages and he'll have my job. I'm obviously shaking like a sh
tting dog at the prospect he makes a complaint.
Not. His entire rant all captured on in car video...
And strangely for me, I managed to remain calm and polite with him throughout.
Cyclist goes past, shouts "Haven't you got anything better to do you
tosser?" I stop him, and he is now the proud owner of my autograph on an £80.00 penalty notice for disorder. He wanted to argue the toss with me, even after I'd explained that I wasn't speed trapping, and he accused me of lying!
I did point out to him as a cyclist that he was more vulnerable than some other road users, and would come off worst in a collision with a drink driver.
Cue massive rant from him that I was a "lying fat 'See You Next Tuesday' ", I had no right to stop him, I had no right to "do" people for speeding, he pays my wages and he'll have my job. I'm obviously shaking like a sh
tting dog at the prospect he makes a complaint. Not. His entire rant all captured on in car video...
And strangely for me, I managed to remain calm and polite with him throughout.
Perfect example....thanks for that Dibble 
The staying calm business....is something you learn...(i've yet to master it, i'm afraid)...
I apply my own rule of reason, ie: Would I have spoken to a police officer like that, before i was in the job? If not..then they're out of order..
Perhaps I'm the one in the wrong and I don't know..
The staying calm business....is something you learn...(i've yet to master it, i'm afraid)...
I apply my own rule of reason, ie: Would I have spoken to a police officer like that, before i was in the job? If not..then they're out of order..
Perhaps I'm the one in the wrong and I don't know..
No Discretion said:
Another angle.
What about the BiB has decided, for whatever reason that he's going to issue you with a ticket...
Now, is it ok to bleat, whinge and whine?
No point being rude or venting off until after he's done the biz. He may find more things to book you for!
I'd express any anger once he'd finished but I'd save the arguments for later, at court if need be. Assuming I thought I was in the right that is.
Boosted.
Boosted LS1 said:
I'd express any anger once he'd finished but I'd save the arguments for later, at court if need be. Assuming I thought I was in the right that is.
Boosted.
Hi Boosted..
What do you mean exactly by 'express any anger'...
Also...the court business is why i've learned to love the police video recorder in the cars. I first thought they were a pain and a 'big brother'..but they save BiB, far more than they hang them...
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