Construction Industry Gone Crazy, Do You See It Lasting?
Discussion
Has anyone noticed that most trades i.e builders/electricians/plumbers etc are getting really busy?
At the beginning of summer I had 5 staff, now I have 18 (most temp.) and I'm still turning work down on a daily basis. It's near on impossible to find a decent electrician now, unless poaching from another company.
My second business, online retail but of most interest to audio/visual installers, is going strangely well also, averaging 3-5 orders a day, before it was 3-5 a week! So that would suggest either more installers are doing more work, or more private people are buying for DIY use. Either way it's a big upturn, I have no idea if it will last. July's sales compared to last year are up 109% and August is up 107% on last year already and we're only half way through the month. Either my sites gained more exposure/traction in the past year or the industry has.
Almost all of the trades, builders and main contractors we work with are experiencing the same.
I'm intrigued to know what other peoples thoughts are, is this a temporary blip that should see us all being a bit cautious? Is this the same for most trades at the moment? Do you foresee it lasting? I don't want to go employing more full time staff if the work dies out in September (a lot of our work is schools whilst the kids are on holiday) I am under the impression that most businesses go bust AFTER the recession, not during, usually from taking on more work than they can cash flow when the work starts flowing again or from growing too quickly then hitting trouble when the work dries up.
Our company has been around 30+ years and has been through this every recession, however this is MY first recession in charge, I don't want to make it our last one!
At the beginning of summer I had 5 staff, now I have 18 (most temp.) and I'm still turning work down on a daily basis. It's near on impossible to find a decent electrician now, unless poaching from another company.
My second business, online retail but of most interest to audio/visual installers, is going strangely well also, averaging 3-5 orders a day, before it was 3-5 a week! So that would suggest either more installers are doing more work, or more private people are buying for DIY use. Either way it's a big upturn, I have no idea if it will last. July's sales compared to last year are up 109% and August is up 107% on last year already and we're only half way through the month. Either my sites gained more exposure/traction in the past year or the industry has.
Almost all of the trades, builders and main contractors we work with are experiencing the same.
I'm intrigued to know what other peoples thoughts are, is this a temporary blip that should see us all being a bit cautious? Is this the same for most trades at the moment? Do you foresee it lasting? I don't want to go employing more full time staff if the work dies out in September (a lot of our work is schools whilst the kids are on holiday) I am under the impression that most businesses go bust AFTER the recession, not during, usually from taking on more work than they can cash flow when the work starts flowing again or from growing too quickly then hitting trouble when the work dries up.
Our company has been around 30+ years and has been through this every recession, however this is MY first recession in charge, I don't want to make it our last one!
What he said,
I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
There does seem to be plenty of work around.
I'm only in my first year on my own as domestic sparky, and getting a good 3-5 days work a week, which is more than I anticipated.
If I had started a year earlier, like if should have done, I would have a much bigger reputation and think I would now be buzzing.
I'm only in my first year on my own as domestic sparky, and getting a good 3-5 days work a week, which is more than I anticipated.
If I had started a year earlier, like if should have done, I would have a much bigger reputation and think I would now be buzzing.
226bhp said:
You have nothing to worry about in monetry terms, the good times are back so make as much money as you can, save and invest wisely as there will be another recession on the very distant horizon.
Yep. Very little has changed in terms of what is going on economically prior to the 2008 f
k up.speedyguy said:
What he said,
I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
My dad was talking to someone the other week and then told me about him, this guy runs a business now but is finding it a bit slow, so having been a good truck driver back in the day he tried to do some truck driving a few days a week to keep the money coming in. Not allowed! Because he doesn't have a bit of paper of some kind. Despite the fact he's a experienced time served truck driver who's simply been out of the game for a while running another business.I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
MrSparks said:
I am under the impression that most businesses go bust AFTER the recession, not during, usually from taking on more work than they can cash flow when the work starts flowing again or from growing too quickly then hitting trouble when the work
I would disagree with that, businesses go tits up all the time, but in the building trade (Unless you're Owen off of Corry) it's boom or bust, recession/no recession, they are the first to be hit and the first to recover. You'd have to be pretty reckless or unlucky to be going bust right now.You're a bit slow in noticing btw! Things began to pick up last year....
226bhp said:
I would disagree with that, businesses go tits up all the time, but in the building trade (Unless you're Owen off of Corry) it's boom or bust, recession/no recession, they are the first to be hit and the first to recover. You'd have to be pretty reckless or unlucky to be going bust right now.
You're a bit slow in noticing btw! Things began to pick up last year....
We've only started noticing the work boom since about April/May time... but we did notice the main contractors starting to pick up from late last year. We did have a few problems late last year that would have affected our work but these issues are now long gone (issues being people!) and now the only way is up. I'm not reckless and hopefully not unlucky, but we shall see!You're a bit slow in noticing btw! Things began to pick up last year....
Similar story here.
I am primarily industrial contractor and have gone from 7 employees to just me over the recession with a casual doing part time hours.
This past couple of months has been manic, which has been a bit awkward for me as during the recession I have been doing a lot of work in France, where I have another business. So I am running around like no tomorrow and contemplating taking someone on again full time.
The pain has been trying to coordinate works over the past few months. As I do electrical and have been waiting for plasterers who are equally as busy.
Although on the industrial side I have not had a massive increase on the commercial/domestic side it has been stupidly busy. Most of the jobs we have quoted for, we have been the only ones quoting. Others not responding as too busy, we have also been on a similar basis and saying if we quote we wont have time to do work until x.
A lot of the trades I used to work with have retired over the past few years as was not worth bothering with little bits and pieces during the recession, so have been doing my best to build up good contacts to work with regularly.
I am primarily industrial contractor and have gone from 7 employees to just me over the recession with a casual doing part time hours.
This past couple of months has been manic, which has been a bit awkward for me as during the recession I have been doing a lot of work in France, where I have another business. So I am running around like no tomorrow and contemplating taking someone on again full time.
The pain has been trying to coordinate works over the past few months. As I do electrical and have been waiting for plasterers who are equally as busy.
Although on the industrial side I have not had a massive increase on the commercial/domestic side it has been stupidly busy. Most of the jobs we have quoted for, we have been the only ones quoting. Others not responding as too busy, we have also been on a similar basis and saying if we quote we wont have time to do work until x.
A lot of the trades I used to work with have retired over the past few years as was not worth bothering with little bits and pieces during the recession, so have been doing my best to build up good contacts to work with regularly.
speedyguy said:
What he said,
I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
Haulage is an interesting one at the mo. Just look at how Maritime have grown in the last few years, they were big, but are huge now and have just bought Roadways out. Maritime runs nice legal tackle, but their drivers wages are not the greatest and they don't seem to treat their subbies very well.I've been offered 2 jobs recently back in construction they are struggling to get staff, as for hauliers they are pretty much able to name their price due a lack of people with the relevant licences, i wonder how the haulage industry will fair come later this year when driver Dcpc's are required i can see the pool of available staff diminishing further.
My mate has his own aerial platform/access company and is having to buy 3 new lorries to meet the demand of work he has coming in, he says it has been crazy for a while. He says his problem is finding the right people to drive them.
Another friend works for a company doing chilled and frozen containers and they are also flat out so there does seem to be a boom in business right now.
I think you are right with regards to when the dcpc comes in, i will watch with interest what the impact of this is. I've done mine, but it does just seem to be another cash cow for the goverment. The course is a farce with no actual exam or test to pass, and you could do exactly the same module on each of the 5 days required if you wanted too, what is that achieving?
A large percentage of lgv drivers like myself are over 40, and what with the dcpc, geting your licence, the way alot of the drivers are treated along with what i would say is quite a low wage at most firms how are the haulage firms, (logistics if you like) supposed to do to entice new young blood into the game?
I guess some 'haulage firms' would maybe consider putting their wages up a bit to entice good drivers, but when these type of firms are trying to compete against the 'logistic giants' who are happy to employ cheaper foreign drivers, how can the smaller haulage companies compete with this?
I find lots of people moaning these days, even on here
about how bad the standards are and seem to be by alot of lorry drivers these days. Sadly often i have to agree, but again see above with regards to the massive influx we've had in the UK of foreign drivers in the last few years, and thats going to continue for a fair while yet.Oh well, peanuts and monkeys and all that.
Sorry just my thoughts on the subject, and not worth alot.
I work as a HVAC installer and technician and I've gotta say times have never been better. The weather obviously helps but this is the busiest I can remember being in a long while. I work mainly in the greater London area and there are no shortage of overheating offices. As I understand it the boss man has had to turn away some jobs due to the fact we just don't have the man power available.
My advice, make hay while the sun shines. No doubt there will be another downturn, these things are all cyclical. If business is going that well invest in London property, it just keeps going up and up.
My advice, make hay while the sun shines. No doubt there will be another downturn, these things are all cyclical. If business is going that well invest in London property, it just keeps going up and up.
Depends where you are based really I'd say.
London has been in a boom for over a year or two now and it looks like that'll remain for some time. I would however say that if anything the rest of the UK are going to catch up - the North West in particular is starting to see a boom. It's unbelievable how buoyant it feels up north and I don't just say that being a northerner. We have the biggest potential for growth compared to elsewhere in the UK.
It's here to stay for 5 years at least in my estimation. Manchester alone is due to award over £7bn worth of work over the next 3 years. The good times are back but I think everyone is being (rightfully) cautious.
I do think some companies will go under. It's part of the problem when you win work during the hard times and are trying to employ trades that are, quite frankly, taking the p**s.
London has been in a boom for over a year or two now and it looks like that'll remain for some time. I would however say that if anything the rest of the UK are going to catch up - the North West in particular is starting to see a boom. It's unbelievable how buoyant it feels up north and I don't just say that being a northerner. We have the biggest potential for growth compared to elsewhere in the UK.
It's here to stay for 5 years at least in my estimation. Manchester alone is due to award over £7bn worth of work over the next 3 years. The good times are back but I think everyone is being (rightfully) cautious.
I do think some companies will go under. It's part of the problem when you win work during the hard times and are trying to employ trades that are, quite frankly, taking the p**s.
Construction is definetly in the middle of a boom. not sure how long it'll continue at this rate, but as everyone says- may as well take it while you can!
I'm a QS and had lots of e-mails/phonecalls from agencies regarding jobs at the moment. and been reading lots of stuff about how there is a shortage of QS's at the moment.
I think this is mainly as a result of the recession, go back 5 years or so and all the small to medium companies couldnt afford to send people to uni to get degrees and people werent studying construction courses because the industry was on its are. fast forward a bit and now there's less people doing the job, people diverged off into other industries, people changed career path altogether and now theres a much smaller resource of people.
I'm a QS and had lots of e-mails/phonecalls from agencies regarding jobs at the moment. and been reading lots of stuff about how there is a shortage of QS's at the moment.
I think this is mainly as a result of the recession, go back 5 years or so and all the small to medium companies couldnt afford to send people to uni to get degrees and people werent studying construction courses because the industry was on its are. fast forward a bit and now there's less people doing the job, people diverged off into other industries, people changed career path altogether and now theres a much smaller resource of people.
The market is slightly overheated at the moment in many area's, personally I see it slightly dropping back before growing at more measured pace for number years then either booming and crashing or correcting downwards. I'd say the current run has at least four years in it.
Funnily enough the recovery is normally more damaging to contractors (and sub contractors) than the preceding recession with lack of staff and low capital reserves seeing many go to wall due to lack of short term cash flow and control.
Certainly I've been noticing a real difficulty in finding decent technical staff throughout the year honestly the level of applicants I've seen really are bottom of the barrel candidates that would only a couple of years ago have been binned without a second thought. Poaching of existing trained competent staff is an issue particular if they have in demand skills.
Materials on heavy side are short supply which will limit how "hot" the market can get if you want bricks currently it's a 14+ week wait, precast products are 12-16 weeks lead time and readymix of any real quantity requires pre-booking at least 4 weeks out. I know of bricklayers quoting 20+ weeks lead in from contract order to attendance on site.
Funnily enough the recovery is normally more damaging to contractors (and sub contractors) than the preceding recession with lack of staff and low capital reserves seeing many go to wall due to lack of short term cash flow and control.
Certainly I've been noticing a real difficulty in finding decent technical staff throughout the year honestly the level of applicants I've seen really are bottom of the barrel candidates that would only a couple of years ago have been binned without a second thought. Poaching of existing trained competent staff is an issue particular if they have in demand skills.
Materials on heavy side are short supply which will limit how "hot" the market can get if you want bricks currently it's a 14+ week wait, precast products are 12-16 weeks lead time and readymix of any real quantity requires pre-booking at least 4 weeks out. I know of bricklayers quoting 20+ weeks lead in from contract order to attendance on site.
b0rk said:
The market is slightly overheated at the moment in many area's, personally I see it slightly dropping back before growing at more measured pace for number years then either booming and crashing or correcting downwards. I'd say the current run has at least four years in it.
Funnily enough the recovery is normally more damaging to contractors (and sub contractors) than the preceding recession with lack of staff and low capital reserves seeing many go to wall due to lack of short term cash flow and control.
Certainly I've been noticing a real difficulty in finding decent technical staff throughout the year honestly the level of applicants I've seen really are bottom of the barrel candidates that would only a couple of years ago have been binned without a second thought. Poaching of existing trained competent staff is an issue particular if they have in demand skills.
Materials on heavy side are short supply which will limit how "hot" the market can get if you want bricks currently it's a 14+ week wait, precast products are 12-16 weeks lead time and readymix of any real quantity requires pre-booking at least 4 weeks out. I know of bricklayers quoting 20+ weeks lead in from contract order to attendance on site.
I hear that the big block and brick suppliers are only holding prices for 30 days from quote now too so enquiries are virtually worthless. That's a massive risk!Funnily enough the recovery is normally more damaging to contractors (and sub contractors) than the preceding recession with lack of staff and low capital reserves seeing many go to wall due to lack of short term cash flow and control.
Certainly I've been noticing a real difficulty in finding decent technical staff throughout the year honestly the level of applicants I've seen really are bottom of the barrel candidates that would only a couple of years ago have been binned without a second thought. Poaching of existing trained competent staff is an issue particular if they have in demand skills.
Materials on heavy side are short supply which will limit how "hot" the market can get if you want bricks currently it's a 14+ week wait, precast products are 12-16 weeks lead time and readymix of any real quantity requires pre-booking at least 4 weeks out. I know of bricklayers quoting 20+ weeks lead in from contract order to attendance on site.
Construction isn't in a boom its just dealing with pent up demand from a completely ste 5 years. A lot of people in the last few years will have exited the industry maybe retrained etc. Officially the sector is still a way off the size it was pre crash.
Its a good time to be a subby. I jacked in a reasonable job in the security installation industry to go it alone in another sector. A couple of others have left my old firm to go subbying one of them refused £17 an hour on the books to go on his own! (a very good rate in that industry would be £14ph) Tough time for people wanting to retain staff on the books thats for sure. How can you compete with £25-£30 PH for sub contract work? Only the most wage orientated people would stay and they are not usually the best workers.
te 5 years. A lot of people in the last few years will have exited the industry maybe retrained etc. Officially the sector is still a way off the size it was pre crash. Its a good time to be a subby. I jacked in a reasonable job in the security installation industry to go it alone in another sector. A couple of others have left my old firm to go subbying one of them refused £17 an hour on the books to go on his own! (a very good rate in that industry would be £14ph) Tough time for people wanting to retain staff on the books thats for sure. How can you compete with £25-£30 PH for sub contract work? Only the most wage orientated people would stay and they are not usually the best workers.
CRB14 said:
I hear that the big block and brick suppliers are only holding prices for 30 days from quote now too so enquiries are virtually worthless. That's a massive risk!
Not even that TBH prices we are seeing are now predicated "subject to available stock". As there is effectively no unallocated stock in the system the quote is basically worthless unless ordered by return. One client had a firm order for 1.5 million bricks returned by the supplier last month with the producer stating "unable to supply the required colour/style". They had a quotation for the brick from same supplier issued at the beginning of April.
I live in the north east and there are new housing estates popping up all over the place so that industry is definitely taking off all over the country. I am a contracting electrical commissioning engineer in the water industry and things are just starting to take a turn for the better. The jobs market is starting to become buoyant with jobs for designers and project management staff due to the onset of Amp 6. My part is usually at the back end of projects so for me it will take a while before I can start to really pick and chose the projects I want and in my area rather than picking a project that is as close to home as possible.
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