Rolling road block buses
Discussion
Mini rant for the day..
Why is the default speed of all buses 20-25mph these days? At least here in W Yorks anyway. Is there some reason for it or do they just like pissing everyone off?
Back in the day if they were running ahead of schedule they'd stop at a bus stop for a few mins without anyone getting on/off before setting off again.
Yes, yes, I know, "it won't be long til they stop" which would be fine if they were heading into town but they're going the other way and thus no-one to pick up so you have 5 miles of 20-25mph in 30-40mph limits with too much traffic coming other way to do them. Why can't they just get their toe down?
No-one uses them anyway, they're always empty.
Why is the default speed of all buses 20-25mph these days? At least here in W Yorks anyway. Is there some reason for it or do they just like pissing everyone off?
Back in the day if they were running ahead of schedule they'd stop at a bus stop for a few mins without anyone getting on/off before setting off again.Yes, yes, I know, "it won't be long til they stop" which would be fine if they were heading into town but they're going the other way and thus no-one to pick up so you have 5 miles of 20-25mph in 30-40mph limits with too much traffic coming other way to do them. Why can't they just get their toe down?
No-one uses them anyway, they're always empty.
Cos the traffic commisioners count them as not having operated if they're more than 1 minute early, meaning fines & possible loss of licence for the company & probable loss of job for the driver?
The real problem I reckon is councils building bus stops opposite traffic islands & removing lay-by style stops. A lot of the time there's less of an obstruction caused by them driving slowly than by sitting at a bus stop. Why not ring your councillor & ask him to consider altering some bus stops so the bus can get out of the traffic flow & wait time?
The real problem I reckon is councils building bus stops opposite traffic islands & removing lay-by style stops. A lot of the time there's less of an obstruction caused by them driving slowly than by sitting at a bus stop. Why not ring your councillor & ask him to consider altering some bus stops so the bus can get out of the traffic flow & wait time?
Can't speak for W Yorks, but in London if a low-frequency route is more than 2 mins early, TfL won't pay the operator for that trip. Likewise if on a high-frequency route two buses run too close together, the operator gets fined. It is immensely frustrating for the bus drivers as well, especially in the school holidays when there is no traffic but the timetable is still normal; you can leave a bus stop on time and arrive at the next 3 mins early... hence crawling along!
vit4 said:
Can't speak for W Yorks, but in London if a low-frequency route is more than 2 mins early, TfL won't pay the operator for that trip. Likewise if on a high-frequency route two buses run too close together, the operator gets fined. It is immensely frustrating for the bus drivers as well, especially in the school holidays when there is no traffic but the timetable is still normal; you can leave a bus stop on time and arrive at the next 3 mins early... hence crawling along!
Would it be too simple to get some co-ordination going with the other drivers to ensure they don't bump into each other then, whilst maintaining timetables and not driving at 1mph everywhere?vit4 said:
Can't speak for W Yorks, but in London if a low-frequency route is more than 2 mins early, TfL won't pay the operator for that trip. Likewise if on a high-frequency route two buses run too close together, the operator gets fined. It is immensely frustrating for the bus drivers as well, especially in the school holidays when there is no traffic but the timetable is still normal; you can leave a bus stop on time and arrive at the next 3 mins early... hence crawling along!
So why not drive normally but wait for longer at the stop and leave on time? Surely the sanction is for leaving early, not arriving early?All that jazz said:
Would it be too simple to get some co-ordination going with the other drivers to ensure they don't bump into each other then, whilst maintaining timetables and not driving at 1mph everywhere?
Tfl has a computer system called ibus, each driver has a screen infront of them telling them how early/late they are, also a controller shouting at the driver to slow down and maintain the service (stay on time). Local services don't have this, but do have good old route managers in strategic places making sure buses are on time.
As a driver, you are stuck between maintaining the service, driving safely but efficiently getting through traffic, whilst also having people moan at you for driving too slowly, stopping too much, and generally just trying to do your job.
I personally prefer to drive as fast as is safe, and sit at a convenient (for me, passengers and passing traffic) stop to wait for the timetable.
Very glad I'm not on TFL or any timetable routes anymore, much prefer long distance coach work, purely due to the lack of timetable pressure.
alangla said:
The real problem I reckon is councils building bus stops opposite traffic islands & removing lay-by style stops. A lot of the time there's less of an obstruction caused by them driving slowly than by sitting at a bus stop. Why not ring your councillor & ask him to consider altering some bus stops so the bus can get out of the traffic flow & wait time?
Having designed and installed bus stops on fairly substantial (and also fairly minor) roads...The main reason for the removal of layby-style bus stops is that during busy periods, the traffic using the road will not let the bus out. Also, but not quite so frequently, you get people parking in the bus stops to drop off the kids/nip to the shops/ pop and visit Doris. The provision of on-road bus stops is generally at the request of the bus company. It's possible to insist on layby types, but then any bus delays are blamed on you. Also, layby types often "steal" available space at the back of the verge for footways or cycleways, leaving even less room for shelters, queuing space etc. Then you get pedesterons moaning that cyclists ride past too fast, cyclists moaning that peds are standing in the cycle lane, and it becomes a giant headache for all involved.
The reason for islands at bus stop locations is that (at busier locations) the passengers get off the bus, and immediately walk in front of the bus to cross the road, they think the stopped bus is a great roadblock, which it kind of is. An island means they (the ex-passengers)can stand in the middle of the road and not block it in both directions. That's a safety thing. If the island wasn't directly there, they would wander in the road, and that would get flagged and wouldn't be allowed past safety audit.
I wouldn't ring the councillor, I'd ring the bus company and ask them about their policy on bus stops, and their lobbying of the councillors. Some bus companies get very threatening (with legal action) very quickly - For example, I've had one (large, antional) bus company threaten to force a public enquiry over one of my schemes if I don't make some alterations to suit their business.
So, yeah, in essence, they're the most effective and safest way of getting people on and off buses and allowing buses to run as close to time as possible. Whilst it doesn't necessarily suit all car drivers, it is part of the manifesto of most authorities, to promote and enable better and more reliable public transport.
Mr SFJ said:
The buses in Bristol only do 25 cause most of them were f
ked (when I used them years ago) They do appear to be newer ones on the roads now, but just as slow.
Yet bus companies are against 20mph limits...ked (when I used them years ago) They do appear to be newer ones on the roads now, but just as slow. For example
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Public-inquir...
alangla said:
OpulentBob said:
Some in-depth stuff about planning & building bus stops
Thanks - it's always good to get a professional view of why things are the way they are. Never appreciated that the bus companies could be so forceful about the facilities provided to them.
I bloody hate dealing with them! 
alangla said:
Thanks - it's always good to get a professional view of why things are the way they are. Never appreciated that the bus companies could be so forceful about the facilities provided to them.
Thanks from me too Bob, often wondered why they had bus stops in such awkward places, now I know
All that jazz said:
Why do your non-TFL bus driving bretheren not do this also then?
At the end of the day, it's down to the driver. Very rarely do I get stuck behind a bus, even though I actively let them out etc, even if I do get impeded, it could very easily be a learner or Doris in her micra causing the issue.
On my first 'secret shopper' assessment, I got exemplary across the board, except excessive use of speed (25mph along a quiet, well sighted main road, with parked cars on either side). Other drivers, although never being anywhere near the speed limit, have been dismissed due to 'dangerous driving' due to lack of mirror checks etc.
I suppose my point is that, all drivers are different. Whilst I may be fully aware that you are stuck behind me crawling up a slight incline ( with my toe welded to the floor on the throttle) I may well pull in at the first stop at the top of the hill to let the que pass, but my W Yorkshire colleagues may not give two hoots that you are there. They are simply doing their job.
I can understand your frustration, but believe me, they aren't doing it purely to annoy you, there are many factors.
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