Cautioned - leaving the scene of an accident?

[Type R Tom]

I’ve only got a few details (3rd hand) so will update as and when but I was wondering if the following sounds possible?

My BiL’s father was driving to a job in his work pickup when he was hit from behind by a woman in a car. Apparently the car was damaged so they exchanged details; he then carried on to his job. About an hour later he was returning the same way heading home and came across an ambulance and police car attending the women. He stopped to find out what was going on, spoke to the police and then spent 3 hours with the police being breathalysed etc. I believe he was then cautioned for “leaving the scene of an accident”

Now as I say I’m getting this 3rd hand but taking it on face value, something doesn’t add up, does all this seem feasible to the PH collective? If you've exchanged details with someone how can you then be done for leaving?

[Jayessgee]

Maybe paragraph 2 is applicable. Best to get the full info from him I reckon.


If an accident takes place and either damage or personal injury is caused then the driver of the vehicle at the time is required to stop at the scene of the accident and make him or herself available to anybody else who may need their details and their insurance policy number.To failing to stop at the scene of an accident is an offence under Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

There is a further obligation (even if you do stop and provide your details) to report any accident that results in injury or damage to a Police Station as soon as reasonably practicable and in any case within a maximum of 24 hours. Failing to report an accident is again another offence under section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

The penalties for failing to stop at the scene of an accident and/or failing to report an accident can be extremely onerous because they are intended to deter drink drivers leaving the scene of an accident etc. The penalty point range for these offences is 5 to 10. If both of these offences occur in relation to the same incident then the offences are treated as occurring on the same occasion. That means that if you get a Summons for both offences you are only at risk of points for one of the offences rather than both. The fines involved can be anywhere up to £5,000 and the level imposed will be affected by the seriousness of the offence and your personal circumstances.

Edit to add: when I say "applicable" I mean maybe that was the basis of the caution. If what you state is correct, he would have 24hrs to report it.

Edited by Jayessgee on Wednesday 13th August 21:13

[Mk3Spitfire]

Worth nothing though that he doesn't "have 24 hours" to decide to report it. It must be reported AS SOON AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE but in any case within 24 hours. So if he decided to carry on with his business for a few hours and had every opportunity to report the accident, he could still commit the offence even though it's still within the 24 hours window.

[Jayessgee]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Worth nothing though that he doesn't "have 24 hours" to decide to report it. It must be reported AS SOON AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE but in any case within 24 hours. So if he decided to carry on with his business for a few hours and had every opportunity to report the accident, he could still commit the offence even though it's still within the 24 hours window.

"Reasonably practicable" can be argued though surely?

[kowalski655]

Surely saying"here is the note i made of her datails when we stopped and exchanged them earlier" is proof he didn't leave?
And really do the cops expect every minor ding to get reported?
Although expect her to say it was his fault and claim for injuries

[Type R Tom]

I don’t know yet but could imagine that he probably checked she was ok, like any reasonable person would; she probably said “I’m fine” and while waiting for the recovery truck had a funny turn, called an ambulance and the police followed.

As it is now a personal injury collision (despite him not knowing that) it now becomes reportable.

[Jayessgee]

Type R Tom said:

I don’t know yet but could imagine that he probably checked she was ok, like any reasonable person would; she probably said “I’m fine” and while waiting for the recovery truck had a funny turn, called an ambulance and the police followed.

As it is now a personal injury collision (despite him not knowing that) it now becomes reportable.

...and if that's the case, it won't go anywhere. He'll be fine.

[Red Devil]

Jayessgee said:

There is a further obligation (even if you do stop and provide your details) to report any accident that results in injury or damage to a Police Station as soon as reasonably practicable and in any case within a maximum of 24 hours. Failing to report an accident is again another offence under section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

If you stop and produce all the required information at the scene there is no such obligation.
Please identify that part of Section 170 which says so. If you can find it, I will donate £10 to charity.

[Jayessgee]

Red Devil said:

If you stop and produce all the required information at the scene there is no such obligation.
Please identify that part of Section 170 which says so. If you can find it, I will donate £10 to charity.

Apologies for that. Was just copied and pasted from another thread.

[Type R Tom]

Does this mean that if you have a collision with someone who is then injured you need to show either them or the police your insurance certificate?

Road Traffic Act 1988
Section 170
(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—

(a)to a constable, or

(b)to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,

the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.

[Mound Dawg]

It's getting late now so I won't open the popcorn now but the real story should be good when the OP gets it and puts it up.

I'll check in on this one when it gets to page 10, should've weeded out all the usually speculation, accusations, pointless circular arguments that these threads usually follow by then.

[ging84]

it's been posted in SP&L to start with not general gassing, so you can cut that down to about page 5 instead of 10

[StuntmanMike]

Waiting for the first ' snake with tits ' comment.

[Eclassy]

Like I have been educated on here in the past but the police cant give you a caution if you dont accept guilt. If he has accepted that he left the scene of an accident before exchanging details then I doubt there is really much he can do about that now.

Another reason why you should ask for a solicitor at every dealing with the police. You are entitled to it and will help avoid situations like this.

He was hit from the back and again like I have been well educated on here, the party at fault is the lady. It makes no sense for him to leave the scene of an accident where the other party is 100% at fault before exchanging details.


I believe your only obligation is to stop and exchange details. Obviously if you have run over a motorcyclist you'd have to wait for the police e.t.c. but there is no obligation for you to wait after exchanging details in what looks like a minor car shunt.

[marshalla]

Current guidance suggests that he could not have been cautioned at the roadside.A whole host of other guidance makes me wonder if it really was a caution or just a friendly warning with the word "caution" slipped in to make it sound official.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/oocd/adult-si...
https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/oocd/code-pra...

[tenpenceshort]

I would imagine he was given the Caution (anything you say etc.) or told that he was being reported rather than a Caution in the sense of a disposal at the scene.

[g3org3y]

Type R Tom said:

I don’t know yet but could imagine that he probably checked she was ok, like any reasonable person would; she probably said “I’m fine” and while waiting for the recovery truck had a funny turn spoke to her partner and realised her neck was hurting very badly, called an ambulance and the police followed.

As it is now a personal injury collision (despite him not knowing that) it now becomes reportable.

EFA

[anonymous-user]

3 hours sounds rather unlikely.

tenpenceshort said:

I would imagine he was given the Caution (anything you say etc.) or told that he was being reported rather than a Caution in the sense of a disposal at the scene.

Yes, probably just interviewed at the roadside and cautioned as part of taking an account in a RTC booklet, as one would need to be completed for an injury RTC. He'd also be breathalysed as standard.

[robinessex]

As I've always understood it:-

Accident, only vehicle damage, no injuries. Swap details, and am I correct that this only neeeds to be name and address?

Accident, injuries. Call the police and medical services.

[CYMR0]

Type R Tom said:

Does this mean that if you have a collision with someone who is then injured you need to show either them or the police your insurance certificate?

Road Traffic Act 1988
Section 170
(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—

(a)to a constable, or

(b)to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,

the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.

If the police require it, it is absolute - although the obligation is only 'as soon as reasonably practicable' given that the 24 hours weren't up. If it was at home and he was required to be in work, it doesn't sound as if it was reasonably practicable at that time.

There is only an obligation to produce at the police station if the other person:

a. has required production of an insurance certificate (random woman is hugely unlikely to have done this, and even more unlikely to have specified this to the police); and
b. has reasonable grounds for doing so (and given that he had exchanged details, this is highly debatable).

It sounds to me as though he has been cautioned in the sense that he has been 'read his rights' rather than that the alleged offence has been disposed of by way of caution.