Rhetorical question. Do you listen to your Hi-Fi/AV system ?
Discussion
The following article http://seanolive.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/dishonesty... makes some very interesting points, particularly about how a products' appearance changes our opinion about its sound.
Here is another article, which has some interesting conclusions. Would the result would have been different if the test had been conducted with the equipment in full view. http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
Any thoughts ??
Here is another article, which has some interesting conclusions. Would the result would have been different if the test had been conducted with the equipment in full view. http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
Any thoughts ??
That is a well known "thing" on sound. Our brains use both visual and audible to process sound, so we actually percieve things differently due to the way it looks sometimes. See the McGurk effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
It's relevance to Hifi? I'm not sure what outcome you're wanting on this thread (which is no doubt destined to descend into more b
ks about cables), but often people hear what they want to hear.
If you've already decided to buy something, (or you already own it) you'll naturally want your decision backed up if you review it critically, especially in public. If you've got an opinion already formed, it's easier to confirm than totally change that opinion.
Meanwhile, having done blnd tests as both a listener and a setter-upper, I'm confident that not all kit sounds the same - so just because 5 men with beards and an anorak decided that 1 stack of decent PA gear and a stack of posh gear sounded the same, doesn't for 1 second make the 2 stacks equivalent.
The similarity might be due to either the speakers, or more likely the room dominating the acoustics, making the 2 seem equivalent. Any sytstem (hifi or other) is only as strong as it's weakest link, so e.g a 3 quid padlock and an 80 quid padlock are equally secure on my shed door, because the plate it's attached to can be removed with a crosshead screwdriver.
So, conclusion? Yes, lots of things affect perception other than straight sound. Can you read anything groundbreaking into that? Not really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
It's relevance to Hifi? I'm not sure what outcome you're wanting on this thread (which is no doubt destined to descend into more b
ks about cables), but often people hear what they want to hear. If you've already decided to buy something, (or you already own it) you'll naturally want your decision backed up if you review it critically, especially in public. If you've got an opinion already formed, it's easier to confirm than totally change that opinion.
Meanwhile, having done blnd tests as both a listener and a setter-upper, I'm confident that not all kit sounds the same - so just because 5 men with beards and an anorak decided that 1 stack of decent PA gear and a stack of posh gear sounded the same, doesn't for 1 second make the 2 stacks equivalent.
The similarity might be due to either the speakers, or more likely the room dominating the acoustics, making the 2 seem equivalent. Any sytstem (hifi or other) is only as strong as it's weakest link, so e.g a 3 quid padlock and an 80 quid padlock are equally secure on my shed door, because the plate it's attached to can be removed with a crosshead screwdriver.
So, conclusion? Yes, lots of things affect perception other than straight sound. Can you read anything groundbreaking into that? Not really.
Crackie said:
...makes some very interesting points, particularly about how a products' appearance changes our opinion about its sound...
A few weeks ago there was an item on Radio 4 about non specialist wine tasting. All the wine used in the test was the same but the tasters thought the wine that looked like it was more expensive (bottle, label, etc.) tasted better.Having been 'into' AV/Hi-Fi for absolutely years, back when I first started out I was absolutely convinced quality was relative to price, but, over the years, I became somewhat less arsed.
I recently changed from a £500 Technics AV receiver to a £1700 Denon receiver (retail prices - I didn't pay that for either, but they originally sold at that price) as the Technics was giving up the ghost.
The difference in sound is negligible. The Denon is noticeably clearer in stereo, but in 5.1 you couldn't notice a difference. And, believe me, after 13 years serious listening (you know, stick your serious face on when selecting DTS audio. Maybe even some thick frames glasses, too) I was well prep'd for hearing the difference in the two amps.
Just to ram the point home - the Denon retailed at £1200 more than the Techincs. That's as much as a reasonable shed, or a months wage to some. fk, it's twice as much as my mortgage!
... and the difference was barely noticeable to someone who knew the cheaper amp, for 13 years, inside out.
I recently changed from a £500 Technics AV receiver to a £1700 Denon receiver (retail prices - I didn't pay that for either, but they originally sold at that price) as the Technics was giving up the ghost.
The difference in sound is negligible. The Denon is noticeably clearer in stereo, but in 5.1 you couldn't notice a difference. And, believe me, after 13 years serious listening (you know, stick your serious face on when selecting DTS audio. Maybe even some thick frames glasses, too) I was well prep'd for hearing the difference in the two amps.
Just to ram the point home - the Denon retailed at £1200 more than the Techincs. That's as much as a reasonable shed, or a months wage to some. f
k, it's twice as much as my mortgage!... and the difference was barely noticeable to someone who knew the cheaper amp, for 13 years, inside out.
Some Gump said:
That is a well known "thing" on sound. Our brains use both visual and audible to process sound, so we actually percieve things differently due to the way it looks sometimes. See the McGurk effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
It's relevance to Hifi? I'm not sure what outcome you're wanting on this thread (which is no doubt destined to descend into more bks about cables), but often people hear what they want to hear.
If you've already decided to buy something, (or you already own it) you'll naturally want your decision backed up if you review it critically, especially in public. If you've got an opinion already formed, it's easier to confirm than totally change that opinion.
Meanwhile, having done blnd tests as both a listener and a setter-upper, I'm confident that not all kit sounds the same - so just because 5 men with beards and an anorak decided that 1 stack of decent PA gear and a stack of posh gear sounded the same, doesn't for 1 second make the 2 stacks equivalent.
The similarity might be due to either the speakers, or more likely the room dominating the acoustics, making the 2 seem equivalent. Any sytstem (hifi or other) is only as strong as it's weakest link, so e.g a 3 quid padlock and an 80 quid padlock are equally secure on my shed door, because the plate it's attached to can be removed with a crosshead screwdriver.
So, conclusion? Yes, lots of things affect perception other than straight sound. Can you read anything groundbreaking into that? Not really.
Hi Some Gump, I'm familiar with the McGurk Effect and I agree that people often hear what they want to hear; regarding Hi-Fi, confirmation bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias is hard at work. A similar effect associates high mass with high quality.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
It's relevance to Hifi? I'm not sure what outcome you're wanting on this thread (which is no doubt destined to descend into more b
ks about cables), but often people hear what they want to hear. If you've already decided to buy something, (or you already own it) you'll naturally want your decision backed up if you review it critically, especially in public. If you've got an opinion already formed, it's easier to confirm than totally change that opinion.
Meanwhile, having done blnd tests as both a listener and a setter-upper, I'm confident that not all kit sounds the same - so just because 5 men with beards and an anorak decided that 1 stack of decent PA gear and a stack of posh gear sounded the same, doesn't for 1 second make the 2 stacks equivalent.
The similarity might be due to either the speakers, or more likely the room dominating the acoustics, making the 2 seem equivalent. Any sytstem (hifi or other) is only as strong as it's weakest link, so e.g a 3 quid padlock and an 80 quid padlock are equally secure on my shed door, because the plate it's attached to can be removed with a crosshead screwdriver.
So, conclusion? Yes, lots of things affect perception other than straight sound. Can you read anything groundbreaking into that? Not really.
To respond to "what outcome you're wanting on this thread", I certainly don't want more nonsense about cables, I'd like to have a discussion about the process of listening. Hopefully this might lead to greater understanding and better sound per pound for interested PHers.
Sound quality is the most important factor for me personally but I appreciate the equipment's looks and pride of ownership can be big factor for some. The people who are interested in better, more enjoyable sound might be interested in this https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/introduction...
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 21st August 08:51
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