Luxury mens shoes - Educate me!
Discussion
I've never really been bothered about expensive shoes. However, after watching some Youtube videos on how hand-made shoes are constructed, I can't help but admire the craftsmanship! I now want a decent pair of shoes for work.
I have spotted nice shoes from a range of shoemakers but other than price (usually a good indicator), I have no feel for the "hierarchy" of these brands and at which level I should be aiming at. Are some of these brands renowned for using better grade leathers? Are any of them style over substance?
Ultimately, can anyone give me a one-liner for each of these brands and perhaps place them in order of quality?
Churches
Loake
Barker
Cheaney
Alfred Sargent
Jeffery West
Trickers
John Lobb
Thanks
I have spotted nice shoes from a range of shoemakers but other than price (usually a good indicator), I have no feel for the "hierarchy" of these brands and at which level I should be aiming at. Are some of these brands renowned for using better grade leathers? Are any of them style over substance?
Ultimately, can anyone give me a one-liner for each of these brands and perhaps place them in order of quality?
Churches
Loake
Barker
Cheaney
Alfred Sargent
Jeffery West
Trickers
John Lobb
Thanks
I have just bought a pair of Loakes in the Debenhams sale, reduced from £205 to £65, they are the most lovely thing I own, very solid, signed by the bloke that made them and feel like they should last a lifetime, oh, and they have a bag to keep each one in. You really can feel the quality in the build.
I previously bought a £90 pair of Leather John Rocha things and had to have them re-heeled & soled after a year, as good as new now.
I previously bought a £90 pair of Leather John Rocha things and had to have them re-heeled & soled after a year, as good as new now.
Given your list John Lobb (Hermès owned, aka John Lobb Paris/JLP) is at the top, and primarily focused on Ready To Wear (RTW) and Made To Measure (MTM, aka Made To Order/MTO). Their main store is on Jermyn Street in London and the factory is in Northampton. At the top of JLP's RTW range is their Prestige collection (beveled waist/etc).
John Lobb of St James's Street (aka John Lobb London/JLL) is bespoke. Whilst JLP also offer bespoke most would consider JLL sits above JLP; JLP and JLL parted ways many years ago and are separate concerns.
If you're seriously considering paying JLP money for a pair of shoes then I would also suggest a pair of Vass* ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handmade-Shoes-Men-Laszlo-...) as a contender. Although Vass may not (if such things matter to you) have the "brand value" of John Lobb, they offer a hand made shoe (RTW or MTM) that is held in high regard by many. You could even make a weekend of it and visit their store in Budapest
John Lobb of St James's Street (aka John Lobb London/JLL) is bespoke. Whilst JLP also offer bespoke most would consider JLL sits above JLP; JLP and JLL parted ways many years ago and are separate concerns.
If you're seriously considering paying JLP money for a pair of shoes then I would also suggest a pair of Vass* ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handmade-Shoes-Men-Laszlo-...) as a contender. Although Vass may not (if such things matter to you) have the "brand value" of John Lobb, they offer a hand made shoe (RTW or MTM) that is held in high regard by many. You could even make a weekend of it and visit their store in Budapest
- in rebuke to the inevitable postings of images of rather clumpy looking Vass shoes, such as on the cover of the Vass book itself, I would suggest a U, K or F last.
Agree with the chap above, he clearly knows his stuff.
Believe it or not, good shoes are a subject that is every bit as wide ranging and detail oriented as cars, or watches, or bikes, or all those other things that blokes obsess about :-).
The post below is a little out of date in terms of pricing but has great detail about makers:
http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthrea...
If you have some time to spare, browsing the forums of www.askandyaboutclothes.com or www.styleforum.net will teach you everything you need to know. If you can cut through the ego and bluster of of some posters (and get used to the US-centric tone), there's a wealth of info and knowledge there.
The good news is that many of the world's best shoes are made in Northampton - several of the factories have factory shops and the proprietors are often very happy to chat for ages and are usually very knowledgeable. The stock is hit and miss but it's a great way to learn. Here's where the factories/shops are:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/71318096/Factory-Shoe-...
If properly looked after, good shoes will last a lifetime and you'll never go back - can get spendy though. £150 a pair is entry-level (at RRP) and it goes a very long way up from there. My view is that the best value is at around £300-350 which will get a good pair of Crockett and Jones or Trickers depending on the style you like. Church's are a little bit more and are also very good (stick to their classic styles though, since they were bought by Prada they have produced some real monstrosities to appeal to far eastern markets). John Lobb (JLP in the post above, not John Lobb based at St James's - bespoke only) and Edward Green are probably at the top of the tree for ready to wear shoes and are at £600-800 and up.
If you want to understand the differences between the brands, construction and styles then either a day pottering around Northampton using the map above or a walk down Jermyn Street in Mayfair is a worthwhile exercise. Price is a good indicator of quality but it's worth educating yourself - for example you can pay a lot of money for branded/designer tat. A reasonable rule of thumb is that is the shoes are made in Northampton, the quality is likely to be high. It's a fairly small industry and the people making the shoes often move around between the manufacturers.
In terms of your list my opinion of the hierarchy list is below - if you read the linked post above it does a good job of explaining why. I have or have had shoes from all of them bar Jeffrey West, which I've never rated.
John Lobb (plus Edward Green at this level - plus Vass and Cleverley but they are more bespoke and arguably even higher quality)
Church's/Trickers (plus Crockett and Jones here)
Cheaney
Alfred Sargent (their RTW sits about here although they have some higher end semi-bespoke shoes that would rank higher)
Barker
Loake (not all made in Northampton so be careful - some outsourced to India)
Jeffrey West
Look for calf leather (slightly matt finish but very supple and can be polished to as shiny as you like) rather than "corrected grain" leather which is permanently shiny (Church's call this "binder" leather), buy a good pair of wooden shoe trees for every pair, invest in some decent brushes/polishes/creams and make sure you don't wear the same pair two days in a row (called "rotation") and you're all set.
Happy hunting!
Believe it or not, good shoes are a subject that is every bit as wide ranging and detail oriented as cars, or watches, or bikes, or all those other things that blokes obsess about :-).
The post below is a little out of date in terms of pricing but has great detail about makers:
http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthrea...
If you have some time to spare, browsing the forums of www.askandyaboutclothes.com or www.styleforum.net will teach you everything you need to know. If you can cut through the ego and bluster of of some posters (and get used to the US-centric tone), there's a wealth of info and knowledge there.
The good news is that many of the world's best shoes are made in Northampton - several of the factories have factory shops and the proprietors are often very happy to chat for ages and are usually very knowledgeable. The stock is hit and miss but it's a great way to learn. Here's where the factories/shops are:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/71318096/Factory-Shoe-...
If properly looked after, good shoes will last a lifetime and you'll never go back - can get spendy though. £150 a pair is entry-level (at RRP) and it goes a very long way up from there. My view is that the best value is at around £300-350 which will get a good pair of Crockett and Jones or Trickers depending on the style you like. Church's are a little bit more and are also very good (stick to their classic styles though, since they were bought by Prada they have produced some real monstrosities to appeal to far eastern markets). John Lobb (JLP in the post above, not John Lobb based at St James's - bespoke only) and Edward Green are probably at the top of the tree for ready to wear shoes and are at £600-800 and up.
If you want to understand the differences between the brands, construction and styles then either a day pottering around Northampton using the map above or a walk down Jermyn Street in Mayfair is a worthwhile exercise. Price is a good indicator of quality but it's worth educating yourself - for example you can pay a lot of money for branded/designer tat. A reasonable rule of thumb is that is the shoes are made in Northampton, the quality is likely to be high. It's a fairly small industry and the people making the shoes often move around between the manufacturers.
In terms of your list my opinion of the hierarchy list is below - if you read the linked post above it does a good job of explaining why. I have or have had shoes from all of them bar Jeffrey West, which I've never rated.
John Lobb (plus Edward Green at this level - plus Vass and Cleverley but they are more bespoke and arguably even higher quality)
Church's/Trickers (plus Crockett and Jones here)
Cheaney
Alfred Sargent (their RTW sits about here although they have some higher end semi-bespoke shoes that would rank higher)
Barker
Loake (not all made in Northampton so be careful - some outsourced to India)
Jeffrey West
Look for calf leather (slightly matt finish but very supple and can be polished to as shiny as you like) rather than "corrected grain" leather which is permanently shiny (Church's call this "binder" leather), buy a good pair of wooden shoe trees for every pair, invest in some decent brushes/polishes/creams and make sure you don't wear the same pair two days in a row (called "rotation") and you're all set.
Happy hunting!
Edited by Tidybeard on Monday 25th August 03:45
Wow thanks all for the excellent information and advice - especially that early on a Bank Holiday Monday! I get a feeling that shoes are likely to join the ranks of cars and watches and I will get obsessed!
Budget-wise, I've decided on that sweet spot of around £350 for now, welted sole, calf leather. I may have to explore the bespoke stuff at a later date!
One of my concerns is that I have to travel to random places with my work. How robust are these shoes with leather soles if I ended up having to walk through puddles/snow/mud/gravel? Are they a fair weather/office shoe only?
Budget-wise, I've decided on that sweet spot of around £350 for now, welted sole, calf leather. I may have to explore the bespoke stuff at a later date!
One of my concerns is that I have to travel to random places with my work. How robust are these shoes with leather soles if I ended up having to walk through puddles/snow/mud/gravel? Are they a fair weather/office shoe only?
FreeLitres said:
Wow thanks all for the excellent information and advice - especially that early on a Bank Holiday Monday! I get a feeling that shoes are likely to join the ranks of cars and watches and I will get obsessed!
Budget-wise, I've decided on that sweet spot of around £350 for now, welted sole, calf leather. I may have to explore the bespoke stuff at a later date!
One of my concerns is that I have to travel to random places with my work. How robust are these shoes with leather soles if I ended up having to walk through puddles/snow/mud/gravel? Are they a fair weather/office shoe only?
Leather soles hold up pretty well if they get wet occasionally, they just need time to dry out properly.Budget-wise, I've decided on that sweet spot of around £350 for now, welted sole, calf leather. I may have to explore the bespoke stuff at a later date!
One of my concerns is that I have to travel to random places with my work. How robust are these shoes with leather soles if I ended up having to walk through puddles/snow/mud/gravel? Are they a fair weather/office shoe only?
This being the UK though, a lot of the shoes are available with a Dainite sole, which is a thin but very hard-wearing rubber sole. Still welted and from above it looks like a leather sole so not clunky. It's a good compromise. Here's an example:
http://www.pediwear.co.uk/loake/products/5383.php
Edited by Tidybeard on Monday 25th August 09:42
Thanks.
Also, when you see the videos of a shoe being lovingly hand made in the Northampton factory, is that only their top-end models or are all their shoes made with such care?
For example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JYB7Y_6I3I
Also, when you see the videos of a shoe being lovingly hand made in the Northampton factory, is that only their top-end models or are all their shoes made with such care?
For example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JYB7Y_6I3I
I've got 2 pairs of a Churchs shoes and they are fabulous. Occasionally you can pick them up in the sale and they have them in the factory shop at Cheshire oaks and maybe Bicester. They are very comfortable too.
Loakes - I personally do not like these are they are uncomfortable even after a few wears!
Loakes - I personally do not like these are they are uncomfortable even after a few wears!
Think that footwear can be very subjective. I have never really go into hierachy of who and why but realised that in my wardrobe it roughly follows;
Church/Cheaney for that extra feel/special cf Barker/Loake for every day use when in shoes BUT virtually all my boots consist of Trickers.
Some the shoe factories still conduct tours on prediaried days- seem to recall it was Cheaney?
The art of shoe making is no different to any other craftsman at work and amazing when seen at close quarters eg Tricker have glazed panels to see the people at work.
Church/Cheaney for that extra feel/special cf Barker/Loake for every day use when in shoes BUT virtually all my boots consist of Trickers.
Some the shoe factories still conduct tours on prediaried days- seem to recall it was Cheaney?
The art of shoe making is no different to any other craftsman at work and amazing when seen at close quarters eg Tricker have glazed panels to see the people at work.
Tidybeard said:
This being the UK though, a lot of the shoes are available with a Dainite sole, which is a thin but very hard-wearing rubber sole. Still welted and from above it looks like a leather sole so not clunky. It's a good compromise. Here's an example:
http://www.pediwear.co.uk/loake/products/5383.php
I only get mine with a Dainite sole, but they are worn every day (in rotation) in all weathers. http://www.pediwear.co.uk/loake/products/5383.php
It's a personal thing, go buy what fits you best not what some blokes on the internet say. I read on here how good some people found Churches and spent over £200 on a pair about 18 months ago. They rub like no other shoes I have every had and leave me unable to put another pair of shoes due to the blisters. They are possibly the most uncomfortable shoes ever made, but this only becomes apparent when I wear them for more than an hour so I did not find out until after I bought them.
I keep trying them hoping they will bed in, no such luck. The emergency pair I bought for c£20 from TK Maxx when I couldn't wear them are still going strong and look fine with daily wear 18-months later.....
I keep trying them hoping they will bed in, no such luck. The emergency pair I bought for c£20 from TK Maxx when I couldn't wear them are still going strong and look fine with daily wear 18-months later.....
I found a comfortable style of Barker and have stuck with them for yrs. Never have to try them on just stick with the same ones. Once they need re-soleing I have some rubber soles put on (I spend a lot of time outside winter and summer) they wear better and don't soak up so much water and slush.
I was foolhardy once and chose a different Barker style, never got on with them and still in the cupboard (looking almost new)
I was foolhardy once and chose a different Barker style, never got on with them and still in the cupboard (looking almost new)
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