5th gen Prelude 2.2 vti or EP3 type R?

[IntriguedUser]

I'm stuck, really stuck. Budget is £3000. It's a decision between these two. MPG does not matter, I'm more interested in speed, in which the EP3 comes out on top, but not by much. I love the looks of the Prelude, and it's something different! My only conern is, am I going to feel like the car is slow because of the much longer gearing? I'm used to ultra short gears, and I fear having them longer will take away the urgency, maybe. I'm 20 too, I have checked insurance and the Lude is more expensive by a couple hundred pounds, but then again that would be offset by the cheaper initial outlay of the car.

I'm thinking if I spent £1500/2000 on the Lude, I could use the rest to do a moderate suspension over-haul, stage 0 tune, and touch up any bits that need attention. Where-as the civic will be more expensive, and a £3000 EP3 will most likely be the bottom of the barrel and still need attention!

What questions should I be asking myself about owning either of these cars?

I've owned:

Corsa C 1.8/1.4/2.0T

Might I add I'm now familar with the term 'point and squirt' meant nothing until I first drove a turbo car, horrible washy weird feeling, promoted huge amounts of laziness despite it being very quick.

[anonymous-user]

i had a preluce 2.2vti but auto, but it worked well and was fast and handled very well with 4ws.

i would get a good one maybe even the jap import 220 bhp one i think.

[Renovation]

For what you want a Civic R will be the better choice

[kambites]

I can't imagine insurance on a Prelude being very friendly once you've modified it?

[IntriguedUser]

kambites said:

I can't imagine insurance on a Prelude being very friendly once you've modified it?

I'm not really into 'modding'. Yes it'll be lowered, with some uprated shocks, but no silly low profile tyres and huge rims. Possibly a skunk intake manifold and a nice induction kit. I've found spending a £1000 to get an extra 25-35 bhp isn't worth it, people always tell me to put it away for an emergency or towards a faster car.

[kambites]

IntriguedUser said:

kambites said:

I can't imagine insurance on a Prelude being very friendly once you've modified it?

I'm not really into 'modding'. Yes it'll be lowered, with some uprated shocks, but no silly low profile tyres and huge rims. Possibly a skunk intake manifold and a nice induction kit. I've found spending a £1000 to get an extra 25-35 bhp isn't worth it, people always tell me to put it away for an emergency or towards a faster car.

Well yes, but you'd still have to declare those things to the insurance and I can't see them looking particularly favourably on them?

[billy939]

I'm in a pretty good position to answer this, I own an Ep3, my 2nd one, and my best mate owned a 5th gen Prelude 2.2vti the manual 197bhp, Motegei edition. I drove this car a fair few times and got a good feel for it.

In terms of outright speed we did have a fair few runs against each other. Rolling start, in gear, standing start and a lot of quick driving over b roads. In all instances the Civic was slightly quicker up to 3 figure speeds and after that would pull away quite a bit. The Prelude handles very well but you do feel its weight and size a lot more than the Civic, it doesn't feel quite as nimble and over a very twisty road the EP3 feels much more manageable and was a little quicker over these roads too.

The lack of 6th gear in the Prelude can be annoying on a cruise, especially as the engine makes a lot of noise the higher up the revs you go, but you do get used to it. On a long journey the car of choice would be very much dependent on what you want from a cruiser. The Prelude has more equipment(air-con, cruise control, heated seats). But I find the Civic's seats are more comfortable and the fuel economy is also quite a bit better.

They both sound great, the EP3 is electronic Vtec so you an feel the changeover more due to the mapping, Honda dropped the power slightly before Vtec kicks in so that it feels more like the old B series engines. The H22 in the Prelude feels a bit more torquey mid range but the K20 in the Civic makes up for it above 5800 where it feels a lot more alive than the Prelude.

For £3000 you could get a very, very nice prelude and when they are in condition they look excellent, especially in red.
You would get a nice Ep3 for that money too though, they have dropped in price a lot recently and £2500 gets you a good one. I'm selling mine for £2400 but it's on 128k so I feel that price is about right considering the condition.

In summary they are very different kinds of cars. The Prelude is a cruiser with a big engine, probably best compared to something like a BMW 330i coupe.
The Civic is proper hot hatch which in standard form is always going to be better when chucking it around bends than the Prelude.

Drive both and see how they feel but for what you want, a nice pre-facelift EP3 sounds ideal.

[TheJimi]

The Prelude VTi is one if the unsung heroes of the performance car world, in my opinion.

I had a 4th gen VTi back in the day and loved it, even though it felt like it was constantly throwing niggles at me. It's a lovely place to sit, with a nice driving position and it will feel more special than the EP3, by a mile.

Performance difference in the real world will be utterly negligible.

If I was doing the Prelude thing again, I'd be looking for a JDM BB4 model, which comes sans abs, aircon, 4WS etc.

[Mastodon2]

IntriguedUser said:

I'm not really into 'modding'. Yes it'll be lowered, with some uprated shocks, but no silly low profile tyres and huge rims. Possibly a skunk intake manifold and a nice induction kit. I've found spending a £1000 to get an extra 25-35 bhp isn't worth it, people always tell me to put it away for an emergency or towards a faster car.

Those are "mods" and your insurance will probably double with those on the car. Either way, it sounds like the EP3 is the car for you, but they're not to cheap to insure once modified either, in fact, they're not cheap to insure, full stop, and good luck finding a standard one. Almost no one keeps them standard because they sound st with the standard airbox and exhaust setup. They make a lovely sound once they've had a few tweaks done, but if you think you're going to get "an extra 25-35bhp" from an 100bhp/L NA car engine for £1000 you've got another thing coming, in fact you'll be lucky to see that at all without some pretty serious work.

[kambites]

TheJimi said:

I had a 4th gen VTi back in the day and loved it, even though it felt like it was constantly throwing niggles at me. It's a lovely place to sit, with a nice driving position and it will feel more special than the EP3, by a mile.

I've had exactly the opposite experience of the mk4 - a friend of mine had one and I couldn't actually fit in the damned thing, it was clearly built for midgets.

[anonymous-user]

billy939 said:

In summary they are very different kinds of cars. The Prelude is a cruiser with a big engine, probably best compared to something like a BMW 330i coupe.

I disagree with this, I live near some great a and b roads, and never felt like a cruiser, it was a car that rewarded going fast round corners, it looks big , yes, but driving it it it is low and pretty nibble with 4ws.

[billy939]

Mastodon2 said:

IntriguedUser said:

I'm not really into 'modding'. Yes it'll be lowered, with some uprated shocks, but no silly low profile tyres and huge rims. Possibly a skunk intake manifold and a nice induction kit. I've found spending a £1000 to get an extra 25-35 bhp isn't worth it, people always tell me to put it away for an emergency or towards a faster car.

Those are "mods" and your insurance will probably double with those on the car. Either way, it sounds like the EP3 is the car for you, but they're not to cheap to insure once modified either, in fact, they're not cheap to insure, full stop, and good luck finding a standard one. Almost no one keeps them standard because they sound st with the standard airbox and exhaust setup. They make a lovely sound once they've had a few tweaks done, but if you think you're going to get "an extra 25-35bhp" from an 100bhp/L NA car engine for £1000 you've got another thing coming, in fact you'll be lucky to see that at all without some pretty serious work.

Agree with some of this. In my opinion they sound great even when standard, maybe just a bit muted. If you wanted to get a bit more noise without increasing the insurance then the Hondata air box mod is just sanding out the inside of the airbox to increase noise. I'm sure that wouldn't cause too much of an issue? At 20 my insurance was about £850 for 10 months with Admiral, fully comp but didn't drop down a great deal a year later.

With a full exhaust, Tegiwa/GruppeM induction, RBC inlet, Kpro/K100 ecu you would expect to see 230-240bhp. However for all of that I would ay it's £2500 at least, not worth it in my opinion.

[Renovation]

The Spruce goose said:

billy939 said:

In summary they are very different kinds of cars. The Prelude is a cruiser with a big engine, probably best compared to something like a BMW 330i coupe.

I disagree with this, I live near some great a and b roads, and never felt like a cruiser, it was a car that rewarded going fast round corners, it looks big , yes, but driving it it it is low and pretty nibble with 4ws.

Me too, I ran a 328 BMW and a Prelude 2.2 Vtec at the same time.

Want to just get there - BMW

Want to have fun - Prelude

[billy939]

The Spruce goose said:

billy939 said:

In summary they are very different kinds of cars. The Prelude is a cruiser with a big engine, probably best compared to something like a BMW 330i coupe.

I disagree with this, I live near some great a and b roads, and never felt like a cruiser, it was a car that rewarded going fast round corners, it looks big , yes, but driving it it it is low and pretty nibble with 4ws.

Hmm maybe, you probably drove it a lot more than me if you owned one so I can only go off of what I felt. Comparing it to a hot hatch like a Clio 182, which is the car my friend had before the Prelude, he said that it was not as easy to drive as quickly on twisty roads, it gripped well but felt heavy. Which is pretty much the same sort of thing I got from driving it compared to my Civic.

[Mastodon2]

billy939 said:

Agree with some of this. In my opinion they sound great even when standard, maybe just a bit muted. If you wanted to get a bit more noise without increasing the insurance then the Hondata air box mod is just sanding out the inside of the airbox to increase noise. I'm sure that wouldn't cause too much of an issue? At 20 my insurance was about £850 for 10 months with Admiral, fully comp but didn't drop down a great deal a year later.

With a full exhaust, Tegiwa/GruppeM induction, RBC inlet, Kpro/K100 ecu you would expect to see 230-240bhp. However for all of that I would ay it's £2500 at least, not worth it in my opinion.

Maybe "st" was the wrong word to use, but "muted" is a lot closer to the mark. I used to drive mine with the radio off as I had to jump start it once and took months to get round to getting the code from Honda again, and as standard, man they are quiet inside. Well, plenty of wind and road noise, as you'd expect in a Type R, but little in the way of thrills from the engine.

[TheJimi]

Can confirm: as standard, the crossover doesn't sound very dramatic at all on the EP3.

Another point worth making about the 4WS version of the Prelude is that the 4WS makes the car feel a little unnatural at times, in that the pointyness will feel artificial. For it's intended purpose, which was high speed direction changes (ie lane change on m-way) it does it's thing admirably well, as it does on long, high speed sweepers.

It also makes parking ridiculously easy, and oversteer is actually quite intuitive at speeds over 35mph, but on balance, I'd seek out a non 4WS model if I was to do it again.

[mini1380cc]

I was fairly disappointed with my Prelude VTI. It was from a Honda dealer and was in great condition but it done nothing for me. The Accord Type-R that followed was significantly better.

[IntriguedUser]

Thanks for all the responses guys, a few things I picked up on.

4WS - I have a feeling it will feel unatural, as someone has suggested. I'm just going in knee deep, as I've only ever driven a Corsa, I don't really have much to compare to, so I think I'll be pleased either way.


I'm a sucker for looks though, would I compromise 1 second in a 0-100 run for the beautiful body of this, I think I would.

Think I'm going to keep an eye out for the time being, I'll make a thread about my new car when I get it!

[giger]

Have you dismissed the Accord Type R for any particular reason? Just checking this hasn't escaped the radar.

The 2.2 engine in the ATR is superb, couple it with a limited slip diff (fitted as standard) and you have a great handling car.

[otolith]

Mastodon2 said:

IntriguedUser said:

I'm not really into 'modding'. Yes it'll be lowered, with some uprated shocks, but no silly low profile tyres and huge rims. Possibly a skunk intake manifold and a nice induction kit. I've found spending a £1000 to get an extra 25-35 bhp isn't worth it, people always tell me to put it away for an emergency or towards a faster car.

Those are "mods" and your insurance will probably double with those on the car.

That's surprising, although I've only changed exhausts and wheels on mainstream policies and it made very little difference. The Elise has exhaust, induction, wheels and mapping without much effect, but that has always been insured with specialists who are perhaps a bit more understanding.

(Most of the changes to the Elise were done with a previous insurer who took the view that anything under 200bhp didn't affect the premium. Don't know what difference the pre-existing mods made to the quote from my current insurer, but when I changed the wheels for the wider Exige alloys no charge was made)