The fastest car from A to B
Discussion
A cliche in magazine articles and also forum posts is the claim that the car discussed is "the fastest from A to B". As hackneyed as "it corners like it's on rails" or "handles like a go-kart".
I recently went to Scotland for a driving weekend with fellow early Porsche enthusiasts. Whilst driving there and around Scotland it struck me that at no point was my speed across country limited by the car I was driving. At almost every point I could have been driving faster (usually much faster) if it had not been for speed limits and other traffic but more generally a need to be able to stop within a safe distance if something unexpected occurs (eg something in the middle of the road when you come around a blind bend).
The ability to cover ground quickly is important if you rallying on closed roads but I don't see the relevance for actual driving on the public road.
Generally how quick a car is from A to B is determined by how much risk the driver is prepared to take and how much they will break the law.
Even if a car were faster from A to B I don't understand why that is important. Most of my fun driving is done for the sake of driving (and generally involves going from A to A!)
Presumably the whole "fastest from A to B" is just a top-trumps style bragging contest.
I recently went to Scotland for a driving weekend with fellow early Porsche enthusiasts. Whilst driving there and around Scotland it struck me that at no point was my speed across country limited by the car I was driving. At almost every point I could have been driving faster (usually much faster) if it had not been for speed limits and other traffic but more generally a need to be able to stop within a safe distance if something unexpected occurs (eg something in the middle of the road when you come around a blind bend).
The ability to cover ground quickly is important if you rallying on closed roads but I don't see the relevance for actual driving on the public road.
Generally how quick a car is from A to B is determined by how much risk the driver is prepared to take and how much they will break the law.
Even if a car were faster from A to B I don't understand why that is important. Most of my fun driving is done for the sake of driving (and generally involves going from A to A!)
Presumably the whole "fastest from A to B" is just a top-trumps style bragging contest.
We've had thiese threads before and yes, you've pretty much summed it up. Unless I break the speed limit, I'm not much faster A to B in my 2-Eleven than my 320d; this is because most of the time on the public road you're limited by blanket speed limits designed for all drivers in all cars in all weather conditions, or vision. Not only that, but even if you have a well sighted corner that you can take quickly, most A and B road corners can be taken at a speed of at least 80%-90% of the speed limit, so comparing cars from A to B comes down to the very small difference in ultimate cornering speed between cars (neglible really in road cars) plus their differences in acceleration, which can of course be huge, but accelerating between 50 and 60mph a second or so quicker than another car makes very little difference to journey time.
This is why outright performance doesn't really interest me much in road cars - feedback and handling are of far more interest, to me at least. There are plenty of examples of cars where I prefer the lesser models to the 'better' models with their bigger and heavier engines, bigger wheels, fatter tyres etc. I think I can safely say that about BMW and Merc to name but a few - at least until you get to their AMG or M models, where the suspension and setup is actually different; until then I'll take the smaller lighter engine, smaller wheels and thinner tyres please.
This is why outright performance doesn't really interest me much in road cars - feedback and handling are of far more interest, to me at least. There are plenty of examples of cars where I prefer the lesser models to the 'better' models with their bigger and heavier engines, bigger wheels, fatter tyres etc. I think I can safely say that about BMW and Merc to name but a few - at least until you get to their AMG or M models, where the suspension and setup is actually different; until then I'll take the smaller lighter engine, smaller wheels and thinner tyres please.
kambites said:
For me the holy grail of "fun" road car design is to produce a car which feels as fast and involving as possible whilst actually travelling slowly. I want to feel like I'm in a single seater doing 150mph while I'm actually being overtaken by cyclists and G-Wizzes.
Driving a banger 2001 1.7 DTI diesel Astra with circa 70bhp is faster point to point in Glasgow than driving a reasonably new & very clean Audi A4.
The A4 gets hit with all sorts of passive aggression, the Astra gets ignored (mostly) or taken pity on. In the Astra you get flashed out of junctions. In the A4 other drivers instinctively bunch up even if you've no intention of changing lane etc.
I think there is still such a thing as a fastest car from A to B, it just has to be something completely uninspiring, pityful even.
The A4 gets hit with all sorts of passive aggression, the Astra gets ignored (mostly) or taken pity on. In the Astra you get flashed out of junctions. In the A4 other drivers instinctively bunch up even if you've no intention of changing lane etc.
I think there is still such a thing as a fastest car from A to B, it just has to be something completely uninspiring, pityful even.
kambites said:
For me the holy grail of "fun" road car design is to produce a car which feels as fast and involving as possible whilst actually travelling slowly. I want to feel like I'm in a single seater doing 150mph while I'm actually being overtaken by cyclists and G-Wizzes.
I find on longer runs that fuel range limits average speed more than anything else, I can do Aberdeen to Glasgow and back faster in my Diesel 4x4 than I can on my 170bhp motorbike simply because the bike wants fuel every 120-150 miles and the car does 500 between fills.
I agree that average road speed is governed more by license and self preservation than the ability of the vehicle.
I can make lots of time on the bike through traffic etc but one petrol stop tends to kill the average speed, you have to be going pretty fast to make any real difference.
I agree that average road speed is governed more by license and self preservation than the ability of the vehicle.
I can make lots of time on the bike through traffic etc but one petrol stop tends to kill the average speed, you have to be going pretty fast to make any real difference.
kambites said:
For me the holy grail of "fun" road car design is to produce a car which feels as fast and involving as possible whilst actually travelling slowly. I want to feel like I'm in a single seater doing 150mph while I'm actually being overtaken by cyclists and G-Wizzes.
We're digressing from the OP's question.
The concept of "fastest from A to B" is intended to refer to a scenario where one is driving on empty unrestricted roads with a mix of dual, single and narrow carriageway roads between points A and B which are a sensible number of miles away from each other for this to be a representative "dash" using all aspects of the car's dynamic ability.
So a Veyron might have a high top speed but be too wide and low for real world chuckability down the narrow lanes, similarly a Caterham might be too skittish over bumps or on a damp road, etc.
I'd say a 4wd rally rep with trick diffs, such as a Mitsubishi Evo.
The concept of "fastest from A to B" is intended to refer to a scenario where one is driving on empty unrestricted roads with a mix of dual, single and narrow carriageway roads between points A and B which are a sensible number of miles away from each other for this to be a representative "dash" using all aspects of the car's dynamic ability.
So a Veyron might have a high top speed but be too wide and low for real world chuckability down the narrow lanes, similarly a Caterham might be too skittish over bumps or on a damp road, etc.
I'd say a 4wd rally rep with trick diffs, such as a Mitsubishi Evo.
Anything with a bit of poke to overtake on single carriageways, can comfortably cruise at moderately illegal (but safe) speeds and a longer driving time range than the driver's bladder capacity will be as quick as necessary.
I suspect most modern mid-range hatches and saloons would suffice.
I often travel from NE Hampshire to South Dorset, on a mixture of Motorway, dual carriageway and single carriageway. The only place you can make any meaningful time up is by getting past slow traffic (lorries and/or grockles) on the single carriageway parts.
I suspect most modern mid-range hatches and saloons would suffice.
I often travel from NE Hampshire to South Dorset, on a mixture of Motorway, dual carriageway and single carriageway. The only place you can make any meaningful time up is by getting past slow traffic (lorries and/or grockles) on the single carriageway parts.
hotchy said:
Isnt that why people buy classic minis? You fly round corners at 40, feeling like your breaking the limit by 100+ and have a great time?
Ours is great for that, 30 feels like 50 and 50 feels like your are in the middle of a storm, when me and my Dad restored the thing we filled it with sound deadening and insulation ETC but that felt wrong, so we took the majority of it out, now it sounds and feels like the world is coming to an end when you really press on - it's not ovetly fast, but it corners and grips well and it's tremendous fun. Light car, decent diff, revvy N/A engine and an old school grumbly noise - thing is, I live in Aberdeen now and my Dad (Huddersfield) wont hand it over to me
Given that all cars are too wide to take advantage of the sort of threading that a motorbike can achieve, it's the ability to overtake in a heartbeat that makes one car faster A-B than another. If you can overtake very very quickly, you can take advantage of opportunities other cars cannot.
For this purpose I would second the Caterham (or other similar) as the candidate, but only one of the really powerful ones (230bhp or more).
I've had a 400+bhp Cerbera but could not make as rapid progress on roads (not motorways) as I could in my powerful Caterham because, despite the monstrous engine and relatively low weight, it still couldn't pass people with that elastic-band-acceleration that the Caterham could - that ability to go from 30 - 60 on winding Scottish or Swiss roads.
And while I've said NO car can thread between traffic like a bike, for sure a smaller footprint car does have a lot of extra road to play with compared to a larger car.
Of course that all changes as soon as the roads are wet, in which case I'd rather be in a Subaru.
For this purpose I would second the Caterham (or other similar) as the candidate, but only one of the really powerful ones (230bhp or more).
I've had a 400+bhp Cerbera but could not make as rapid progress on roads (not motorways) as I could in my powerful Caterham because, despite the monstrous engine and relatively low weight, it still couldn't pass people with that elastic-band-acceleration that the Caterham could - that ability to go from 30 - 60 on winding Scottish or Swiss roads.
And while I've said NO car can thread between traffic like a bike, for sure a smaller footprint car does have a lot of extra road to play with compared to a larger car.
Of course that all changes as soon as the roads are wet, in which case I'd rather be in a Subaru.
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