Agreed value classic car insurance
Discussion
I have a 1959 Turner which has a considerable amount of competition history, including the 1960 RAC rally. I'm looking to get an agreed value insurance policy but I was surprised to find the valuations are based only on the condition of the car. Does anyone know of any agreed valuations that look at the historic importance of the car as well as the appearance? I doubt my car will score very highly on condition. Some of the parts are very 'original'.
marshalla said:
How do you put a value on history ? It's irreplaceable.
The best a mainstream insurer can do is fund the purchase of a vehicle in similar condition.
I think you need to speak to some a bit more specialist who's used to dealing with issues of provenance and history.
That's true and I was trying to think about whether there is any material value in the history. I guess for me I would always try and rebuild this car. As long as it was insured for enough to do that then I would be happy. My current insurance company is Peter Best. I have it insured for 'a value' but my understanding is that in the event of a claim the inspector would decide it's market value at the time of the accident.The best a mainstream insurer can do is fund the purchase of a vehicle in similar condition.
I think you need to speak to some a bit more specialist who's used to dealing with issues of provenance and history.
brierleys said:
That's true and I was trying to think about whether there is any material value in the history. I guess for me I would always try and rebuild this car. As long as it was insured for enough to do that then I would be happy. My current insurance company is Peter Best. I have it insured for 'a value' but my understanding is that in the event of a claim the inspector would decide it's market value at the time of the accident.
Can you get them to accept a value from the owners' club's assessment of the true worth of the vehicle ? This can include consideration of history and special features.Just changed brokers recently and had no problems with footman James. With certain cars over a certain value, they need a letter from a marque expert or owners club registrar stating why the car was worth - my restorer just so happens to be the registrar for my model in the owners club so was fairly straightforward.
I presume once you are talking over a the next financial threshold they may require further information.
I presume once you are talking over a the next financial threshold they may require further information.
If the value is "an agreed" figure & written into the policy, you then have a contract with the insurers that they will either pay you that amount in the event of a total loss, or provide an replacement equivalent condition / value vehicle. You might well get a visit from a loss adjuster (especially if the value is high) in order to establish that the evidence you provided to support the actual valuation was correct & accurate. In my experience, once these guys are convinced that you are not attempting to defraud, they are in fact very helpful, & will go out of their way to make the claim process easier.
I assume you have documentary evidence of the competition history - word of mouth will probably not be sufficient? Also any actual results & known drivers would be useful. Copy everything ..... & I mean everything ..... to the insurers to support your valuation.
Competition cars are very difficult to value, & the owners club will be able to advise. Most will actually undertake the valuation & provide a written report for the insurers.
I assume you have documentary evidence of the competition history - word of mouth will probably not be sufficient? Also any actual results & known drivers would be useful. Copy everything ..... & I mean everything ..... to the insurers to support your valuation.
Competition cars are very difficult to value, & the owners club will be able to advise. Most will actually undertake the valuation & provide a written report for the insurers.
Maulden7 said:
If the value is "an agreed" figure & written into the policy, you then have a contract with the insurers that they will either pay you that amount in the event of a total loss, or provide an replacement equivalent condition / value vehicle. You might well get a visit from a loss adjuster (especially if the value is high) in order to establish that the evidence you provided to support the actual valuation was correct & accurate. In my experience, once these guys are convinced that you are not attempting to defraud, they are in fact very helpful, & will go out of their way to make the claim process easier.
I assume you have documentary evidence of the competition history - word of mouth will probably not be sufficient? Also any actual results & known drivers would be useful. Copy everything ..... & I mean everything ..... to the insurers to support your valuation.
Competition cars are very difficult to value, & the owners club will be able to advise. Most will actually undertake the valuation & provide a written report for the insurers.
Yes, we have documentation such as results, photos and articles from Motoring News. We recovered the car from Jersey in 1984 and the DVLA had wiped the registration from the database. My dad collected all this evidence to prove that the car should have the reg number and we got it reinstated.I assume you have documentary evidence of the competition history - word of mouth will probably not be sufficient? Also any actual results & known drivers would be useful. Copy everything ..... & I mean everything ..... to the insurers to support your valuation.
Competition cars are very difficult to value, & the owners club will be able to advise. Most will actually undertake the valuation & provide a written report for the insurers.
All sounds good (as an owners' club official I am involved in assessing cars for asking / selling / insuring values - so know just what is involved)
An OC valuation is essential in this process imho - especially for historic competition cars, but this can only be done on the basis of "as is" condition. A potential valuation after restoration is another matter, but the proven provenance will be a major factor.
So few historic competition cars are sold on the open market that it's almost impossible to establish a "market price", they are generally worth what somebody is prepared to pay depending on condition & provenance. For example, in my world, a genuine historic competition "club" car (with history) might be worth say £50k+ (depending on condition / provenance etc) but an actual genuine ex-works car in excess of £100k (again depending on condition etc)
I don't know anything about Turner cars, but there can't have been many genuine competition cars around, so the proven rarity must be a plus?
An OC valuation is essential in this process imho - especially for historic competition cars, but this can only be done on the basis of "as is" condition. A potential valuation after restoration is another matter, but the proven provenance will be a major factor.
So few historic competition cars are sold on the open market that it's almost impossible to establish a "market price", they are generally worth what somebody is prepared to pay depending on condition & provenance. For example, in my world, a genuine historic competition "club" car (with history) might be worth say £50k+ (depending on condition / provenance etc) but an actual genuine ex-works car in excess of £100k (again depending on condition etc)
I don't know anything about Turner cars, but there can't have been many genuine competition cars around, so the proven rarity must be a plus?
Meant to add ...... an insurance valuation is different to a market valuation.
The insurance valuation figure needs to be based on dealer / trade sale prices, & not on private sale prices, so will typically be 25%+ higher than private sale values.
It also needs to last for a year (the term of the insurance cover) so must take into account any expected rise in prices over the year. This has been very important over the last few years when prices of most "classic cars" have risen sharply year on year.
Perhaps not quite so critical at this time (unless you are talking about a super car) but you don't want to be under insured should the worst possible happen the day before your insurance renewal is due (if you're insured for say £20k that's all you will get - even if a replacement car costs £25k)
The insurance valuation figure needs to be based on dealer / trade sale prices, & not on private sale prices, so will typically be 25%+ higher than private sale values.
It also needs to last for a year (the term of the insurance cover) so must take into account any expected rise in prices over the year. This has been very important over the last few years when prices of most "classic cars" have risen sharply year on year.
Perhaps not quite so critical at this time (unless you are talking about a super car) but you don't want to be under insured should the worst possible happen the day before your insurance renewal is due (if you're insured for say £20k that's all you will get - even if a replacement car costs £25k)
Maulden7 said:
Meant to add ...... an insurance valuation is different to a market valuation.
The insurance valuation figure needs to be based on dealer / trade sale prices, & not on private sale prices, so will typically be 25%+ higher than private sale values.
It also needs to last for a year (the term of the insurance cover) so must take into account any expected rise in prices over the year. This has been very important over the last few years when prices of most "classic cars" have risen sharply year on year.
Perhaps not quite so critical at this time (unless you are talking about a super car) but you don't want to be under insured should the worst possible happen the day before your insurance renewal is due (if you're insured for say £20k that's all you will get - even if a replacement car costs £25k)
Many thanks for your help. I'll go back to the club and start from there.The insurance valuation figure needs to be based on dealer / trade sale prices, & not on private sale prices, so will typically be 25%+ higher than private sale values.
It also needs to last for a year (the term of the insurance cover) so must take into account any expected rise in prices over the year. This has been very important over the last few years when prices of most "classic cars" have risen sharply year on year.
Perhaps not quite so critical at this time (unless you are talking about a super car) but you don't want to be under insured should the worst possible happen the day before your insurance renewal is due (if you're insured for say £20k that's all you will get - even if a replacement car costs £25k)
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