Bangernomics or not?
Discussion
So imagine the scene. It’s Saturday night, I’m at home “babysitting” whilst the better half is out on the town. I’m bored and and messing around on Flea Bay. Having shifted on the M5 (at a profit) a few months ago, and being completely undecided on a replacement I'm getting pretty fed up being without a car (although living in London I have excellent public transport and don't need one for the commute). So a couple of beers later and 560 of The Bank's finest promissory notes later I find myself the new owner of a 1996 Lexus LS400.
And so I find myself entering the world of Bangernomics for the first time since my adolescence. Or so I thought. Having collected the car from a very nice man from Stevenage I've kind of fallen for what the missus has called "Earl". He's huge and unwieldy in London traffic but he's super comfortable, quite, refined and I think has some potential. The car spent its first two years of life as a corporate limo for Panasonic clocking up almost 90,000 miles in the process. The chap I bought it from was the second owner and ran it as daily for about 10 years. However, it's spent the past 3 years mainly on his driveway getting out for once or twice a week.
Obviously it needs some work. Whilst being meticulously maintained during the majority its life I would probably do a full service of all fluids and filters, plugs, replace hoses, brakes all round and probably just go the whole hog and do the whole timing belt, water pump, etc at the same time. I'd probably also do some suspension work if required. All of which is preventative. I'm handy with the spanners and my Dad and family are mechanics. It will need some tyres in the not to distant future but the rest really is cosmetic.
I make the super fussy to do list: gas bonnet struts, repair windscreen chip, replace chipped headlight, replacement drivers wing mirror glass, LCD backlight on radio (or aftermaket head unit), recondition leather seats, refurbish alloy wheels, fix stitching on the leather steering wheel, degas A/c, fix scuffing to rear bumper, very good detail and valet.
So I'm now torn. Do I run it until it drops and then scrap it....or do I give it some TLC and keep it for longer? If it lasts until Christmas it will have more than paid for itself (even with the fuel bills) in terms of taxis, trains and care hire.
Anybody got any advice?
And so I find myself entering the world of Bangernomics for the first time since my adolescence. Or so I thought. Having collected the car from a very nice man from Stevenage I've kind of fallen for what the missus has called "Earl". He's huge and unwieldy in London traffic but he's super comfortable, quite, refined and I think has some potential. The car spent its first two years of life as a corporate limo for Panasonic clocking up almost 90,000 miles in the process. The chap I bought it from was the second owner and ran it as daily for about 10 years. However, it's spent the past 3 years mainly on his driveway getting out for once or twice a week.
Obviously it needs some work. Whilst being meticulously maintained during the majority its life I would probably do a full service of all fluids and filters, plugs, replace hoses, brakes all round and probably just go the whole hog and do the whole timing belt, water pump, etc at the same time. I'd probably also do some suspension work if required. All of which is preventative. I'm handy with the spanners and my Dad and family are mechanics. It will need some tyres in the not to distant future but the rest really is cosmetic.
I make the super fussy to do list: gas bonnet struts, repair windscreen chip, replace chipped headlight, replacement drivers wing mirror glass, LCD backlight on radio (or aftermaket head unit), recondition leather seats, refurbish alloy wheels, fix stitching on the leather steering wheel, degas A/c, fix scuffing to rear bumper, very good detail and valet.
So I'm now torn. Do I run it until it drops and then scrap it....or do I give it some TLC and keep it for longer? If it lasts until Christmas it will have more than paid for itself (even with the fuel bills) in terms of taxis, trains and care hire.
Anybody got any advice?
MadProfessor said:
Anybody got any advice?
Yes. Unless you know more than you've mentioned most of the work you have planned looks unnecessary if the car has been serviced and run a few days a week.Rather than piss away resources (especially time) look at what really needs done before planning work.
Also bear in mind if you're tearing out old parts preventatively, that these many may be OEM components, which in this car will outlast the majority of pattern parts many bodgers fit to bangernomics cars.
Don't get ahead of yourself.
Madness to buy a really cheap car and then spend money and time making it an investment that it is only going one way fast.
If you wanted a car in better nick, you could have got one for much less money and hassle than you would spend upgrading the one you bought. The value in your car is that it cost f
k all and is not bad.
If you wanted a car in better nick, you could have got one for much less money and hassle than you would spend upgrading the one you bought. The value in your car is that it cost f
k all and is not bad. I found myself in an almost identical situation to you about a year ago (also with a '96 LS400!).
In the end wallet won over heart and I got rid after the power steering pump decided to deposit a load of fluid over the alternator, in addition to various other issues that needed fixing.
It was fun while it lasted but looking back I'm glad I didn't just pour money into it, I did enough of that at the petrol station.
ETA: OEM suspension parts are ridiculously expensive and aftermarket parts tend to get less than favourable reviews on Lexus forums.
In the end wallet won over heart and I got rid after the power steering pump decided to deposit a load of fluid over the alternator, in addition to various other issues that needed fixing.
It was fun while it lasted but looking back I'm glad I didn't just pour money into it, I did enough of that at the petrol station.
ETA: OEM suspension parts are ridiculously expensive and aftermarket parts tend to get less than favourable reviews on Lexus forums.
Edited by oilslick on Wednesday 24th September 10:53
If you are trying to do bangernomics, you are doing it wrong! That list of work is completely unnecessary for a banger.... minimal work to keep it on the road, forget doing belts, preventative etc. just do the absolute minimum to keep it on the road - the whole point of bangernomics is spending the absolute minimum with the least invested possible, so that you can simply throw it away and start again when something as inconvenient as something like a blowing exhaust ends the party.....
If you want to show a bit of love to a bargain barge that you quite fancy and intend to re-commission an old warrior, fill your boots but don't kid yourself that you are embarking upon bangernomics.....
If you want to show a bit of love to a bargain barge that you quite fancy and intend to re-commission an old warrior, fill your boots but don't kid yourself that you are embarking upon bangernomics.....
Oh, I know the words to this song...
I bought an LS400 a couple of months ago for our Euro road trip. (Not quite as cheap as yours, but I wanted a Mk4.) After doing 2600 miles around Europe - unmade Croatian roads, crazy Italian driving, fast Autobahning and climbing the Spluegen Pass loaded up with wine - we were supposed to wave goodbye to it and sell it for the same price.
Except we got attached to it - even my eco-friendly OH who hates the very idea of V8s and 'posh' cars. It was absolutely dependable and such a fantastic place to be, with so many clever engineering touches. It's so much car for the money that it seems stupid to sell it.
So... in typical man maths fashion, I'm selling the Aygo and keeping the Lexus and I'll slowly spend a little on it here and there to renew it over time.
(I've got a sneaky suspicion that LS400 values will firm up longer term. They are being traded at banger money and that means lots get scrapped due to small MOT failures that owners are unwilling to pay for. Could just be wishful thinking on my part, who knows...?)
I bought an LS400 a couple of months ago for our Euro road trip. (Not quite as cheap as yours, but I wanted a Mk4.) After doing 2600 miles around Europe - unmade Croatian roads, crazy Italian driving, fast Autobahning and climbing the Spluegen Pass loaded up with wine - we were supposed to wave goodbye to it and sell it for the same price.
Except we got attached to it - even my eco-friendly OH who hates the very idea of V8s and 'posh' cars. It was absolutely dependable and such a fantastic place to be, with so many clever engineering touches. It's so much car for the money that it seems stupid to sell it.
So... in typical man maths fashion, I'm selling the Aygo and keeping the Lexus and I'll slowly spend a little on it here and there to renew it over time.
(I've got a sneaky suspicion that LS400 values will firm up longer term. They are being traded at banger money and that means lots get scrapped due to small MOT failures that owners are unwilling to pay for. Could just be wishful thinking on my part, who knows...?)
EskimoArapaho said:
(I've got a sneaky suspicion that LS400 values will firm up longer term. They are being traded at banger money and that means lots get scrapped due to small MOT failures that owners are unwilling to pay for. Could just be wishful thinking on my part, who knows...?)
Agreed, I paid <£800 for mine a year and a half ago and there were between 8 and 10 to choose from around that price on AutoTrader. Looked a couple of days ago and there were 3.If you're going to spend that much time and money on a £500 car, you need to be sure of two things:
1. You will want to keep it for at least 4-5 years
2. It will last that long
No doubt both might be true, but it will be a bit galling if some major expensive widget fails in six months time. And if you decide after a year that you want a change, you won't have reaped the rewards of all your maintenance.
At least run it for a month or two before investing four figures. Top up the fluids, but don't change them just yet. Then, if you're still sure its a keeper, go for it. (But, as said above, it's not Bangernomics!)
I'm using the cam belt interval (60k on my 12 year old Fabia) as a target to work towards. I'm about halfway through that, so anything I spend on the car has one eye that mileage. I've just changed all 4 tyres, which I hope will last 30k, and I'm not afraid to do preventative maintenance. But when I get close to the next cam belt, I'll have think very carefully about whether to invest in another 4 years.
1. You will want to keep it for at least 4-5 years
2. It will last that long
No doubt both might be true, but it will be a bit galling if some major expensive widget fails in six months time. And if you decide after a year that you want a change, you won't have reaped the rewards of all your maintenance.
At least run it for a month or two before investing four figures. Top up the fluids, but don't change them just yet. Then, if you're still sure its a keeper, go for it. (But, as said above, it's not Bangernomics!)
I'm using the cam belt interval (60k on my 12 year old Fabia) as a target to work towards. I'm about halfway through that, so anything I spend on the car has one eye that mileage. I've just changed all 4 tyres, which I hope will last 30k, and I'm not afraid to do preventative maintenance. But when I get close to the next cam belt, I'll have think very carefully about whether to invest in another 4 years.
I wouldn't blow lots of money on it myself. As it stands you have little liability as if it breaks the most you can lose is £560, if you invest more money and it breaks you stand to lose much more which takes some of the joy out of cheap car ownership IMHO. Given the price of Toyota parts I would just keep the fluids topped up, maybe change the oil and filters but then drive it til it drops or horribly fails its MOT.
(Adding to the above.)
I didn't take my own advice on my previous car, 15 year old Saab 9-3 for £650.
It had two bald tyres, no handbrake, and several annoying niggles, but it had charm and character. And a long MoT. I resolved not to spend a penny on it - didn't even change the oil, and hoped it might last me the summer.
The bugger lasted and lasted, and I began to think it might pass its next MoT. It needed a couple of hundred quid, but it passed. Then the starter motor went. A couple more tyres. Soon I was sticking it in for another MoT.
All told, I spend about £1200 on top of the purchase price, and ran it for 2 years. I then rather rapidy decided to sell it a month after buying two new tyres for the MoT. Only then did I bother to fix the annoying niggles (cheap and easy!), and change the oil.
Not a very smart strategy!
I didn't take my own advice on my previous car, 15 year old Saab 9-3 for £650.
It had two bald tyres, no handbrake, and several annoying niggles, but it had charm and character. And a long MoT. I resolved not to spend a penny on it - didn't even change the oil, and hoped it might last me the summer.
The bugger lasted and lasted, and I began to think it might pass its next MoT. It needed a couple of hundred quid, but it passed. Then the starter motor went. A couple more tyres. Soon I was sticking it in for another MoT.
All told, I spend about £1200 on top of the purchase price, and ran it for 2 years. I then rather rapidy decided to sell it a month after buying two new tyres for the MoT. Only then did I bother to fix the annoying niggles (cheap and easy!), and change the oil.
Not a very smart strategy!
I have a '99 Mk4 LS400 bought a couple or so years ago for £1900. They do grow on you as they're sublimely comfortable and a lovely relaxing place to be. I get 25mpg on average.
A couple of tips: leave it in 'sport' mode, it seems to make no difference to fuel economy and I think it's a better drive. Don't be tempted to get pattern suspension parts. Mine needed a front top wishbone and I baulked at Lexus' £450 so got a pattern for £180. A year and 4k miles later it was knocking again. So I bit the bullet and got a genuine one from here http://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/ for £400 IIRC.
A good place for advice and chat is here http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/
My decision in a couple of years will be whether to do the cambelt or not.
If it goes bang I'll get another, maybe a 430 or 460 although I'd love a 460h.
A couple of tips: leave it in 'sport' mode, it seems to make no difference to fuel economy and I think it's a better drive. Don't be tempted to get pattern suspension parts. Mine needed a front top wishbone and I baulked at Lexus' £450 so got a pattern for £180. A year and 4k miles later it was knocking again. So I bit the bullet and got a genuine one from here http://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/ for £400 IIRC.
A good place for advice and chat is here http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/
My decision in a couple of years will be whether to do the cambelt or not.
If it goes bang I'll get another, maybe a 430 or 460 although I'd love a 460h.
rovermorris999 said:
Mine needed a front top wishbone and I baulked at Lexus' £450 so got a pattern for £180. A year and 4k miles later it was knocking again. So I bit the bullet and got a genuine one from here http://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/ for £400 IIRC.
But you wouldn't want to spend £400 on a wishbone if you were thinking Bangernomics like the OP. I'd be spending that on the whole car. 
Quick update.
I decided to run it as is for the time being. Checked all the fluid levels (which were fine) and tyres (also fine) and have done about 1500 miles so far at 27 mpg. I don't normally do so many miles but it's been reliable and supremely comfortable. It took me a while to realise that the reserve fuel indicator comes on with 15 litres left in the tank.
So far, so good.
i ran a bangernomics 406 for 7 years - no major faults whatsoever - i was lucky finding a good one
personally i'd only do it again if it was a neighbors/ work mates / great aunts etc car that i knew the history of, and wasnt being sold cus mush at the garage said X was going to go.
thats not to say that bargains are out there, i just dont have time to fiddle about
personally i'd only do it again if it was a neighbors/ work mates / great aunts etc car that i knew the history of, and wasnt being sold cus mush at the garage said X was going to go.
thats not to say that bargains are out there, i just dont have time to fiddle about
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