What's the difference

[Monkeynut21]

I'm looking for a bit of information with regard to setup. I'm about to get a new track rod end and coffin arm put on my 987S and the specialist has told me it will require setting up on his machine afterwards, at the cost of £180. Now I've no problem spending the money if necessary but a couple of things trouble me, firstly whats the difference between a geometry set up compared to your normal camber, caster, toe in,toe out deal I can get from a local indy and is it really worth it for a road car. And secondly is £180 a sensible price for such work.

Thanks

[ilduce]

You'll need the tracking done if you change the TRE but not the coffin arm, so ....you'll need the tracking done.
When you say specialist I guess you mean the dealer because then you mention an Indy. If so, the dealer is, as usual, a rip-off. Go to a good tyre place with laser tracking and they should fit the parts for you as well a lot cheaper too.
I think I was quoted about £90 for a full four wheel job.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Can't help with your specific question but I do know that accurate set-up is particularly important for mid-engined cars.

[thegoose]

Having a "tyre place" use their "laser tracker" is very much pot luck compared to having a specialist with the right equipment (Hunter, Beissbarth, or oddly, even accurately using bits of string if the guy really know what he's doing) give the car a precise set-up, which can also be tailored to individual requirements.

[ilduce]

thegoose said:

Having a "tyre place" use their "laser tracker" is very much pot luck compared to having a specialist with the right equipment (Hunter, Beissbarth, or oddly, even accurately using bits of string if the guy really know what he's doing) give the car a precise set-up, which can also be tailored to individual requirements.

Taking into consideration the car, it's use and the work being carried out, as long as he comes out of the "tyre place" with the right numbers on the print-out it will be fine. It's only a Porsche, it's not a space ship.

[edc]

ilduce said:

thegoose said:

Having a "tyre place" use their "laser tracker" is very much pot luck compared to having a specialist with the right equipment (Hunter, Beissbarth, or oddly, even accurately using bits of string if the guy really know what he's doing) give the car a precise set-up, which can also be tailored to individual requirements.

Taking into consideration the car, it's use and the work being carried out, as long as he comes out of the "tyre place" with the right numbers on the print-out it will be fine. It's only a Porsche, it's not a space ship.

I disagree. You can have all the numbers light up 'green' to show within factory range but the car will not necessarily be spot on. I have had a couple of alignment 'checks' (no adjustment needed as within range) from regular tyre places and the car always handles significantly better when more time and attentino has been spent on it. Indeed, I pay for mine to be out of factory range quite deliberately as that is what I want.

[Ozzie Osmond]

edc said:

I have had a couple of alignment 'checks' (no adjustment needed as within range) from regular tyre places and the car always handles significantly better when more time and attentino has been spent on it.

I think that's right. Most people prefer to buy shiny bits to bolt onto their car rather than get it properly sorted.

[edc]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I am no racing driver or track day fiend. Admittedly, if you are just pootling and commuting with the odd burst of corner speed you are never really going to notice much difference between something that gets within the factory tolerance spec and one that is on the outer limits of spec and tighter. But on my Boxsters I can tell the difference between something that is within factory spec and one which has been optimised within factory spec.

[edc]

The difference isn't dramatic but it is noticeable. I hate to think how much I have spent trying different things suspension wise just for the sake of it. All I know is I prefer the car 'customised' for me and right or wrong that's not within the factory limits.

[ilduce]

In this car and in day to day road use 90% of you aren't going to notice the difference.
Neither are the other 10%.

Should you disagree, I have some snake oil that will work wonders if rubbed into the suspension and it's only £100 an ounce.

[edc]

ilduce said:

In this car and in day to day road use 90% of you aren't going to notice the difference.
Neither are the other 10%.

Should you disagree, I have some snake oil that will work wonders if rubbed into the suspension and it's only £100 an ounce.

I'm not sure why you have to come across so high and mighty and sarcastic in your post when others are merely sharing their ownership experience. Nobody else knows that better than an owner themself. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with what you just wrote and when that opportunity presents itself and you can really drive the car you will probably think it's brilliant. Almost by definition a factory set up is going to suit most people as that is what the R&D is all about, giving the masses what they want and what will sell. But, it's a bit like thinking something is the best because you have never tried anything else or better. Whether you want that or even need it is another debate entirely. For those that drive their Boxster like white goods then no matter what the set up they will probably enjoy it. For those who are perhaps more enthusisastic or simply curious and like to experiment then something 'different' is appealing.

[edc]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I know. I have done all the things you describe and more. I have adjustable arms. They were cheap. Transform was your word not mine. I merely said that I can feel a noticeable difference between an optimised set up and one that just lights up 'green'. I never said you will notice this on the down ramp of a car park or in regular commuting. I've already agreed that for most people most of the time they won't notice the difference, that the difference is subtle, but for me noticeable.

[ilduce]

edc said:

I merely said that I can feel a noticeable difference between an optimised set up and one that just lights up 'green'.

Just talking about you, on the phone to Roman Dumas, and he's sh'itting himself about not getting a drive next year.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Why so argumentative? The plain fact is that mid-engine cars tend to be pretty sensitive to set-up. If you don't want to believe that or simply don't care, that's fine. Just keep it to yourself.

[edc]

ilduce said:

edc said:

I merely said that I can feel a noticeable difference between an optimised set up and one that just lights up 'green'.

Just talking about you, on the phone to Roman Dumas, and he's sh'itting himself about not getting a drive next year.

That might be funny if I even knew or cared who he was. I'm not sure why people are so aggravated by another person's experience. I'm not sitting here denigrating you or anybody else but feel free to carry on.

[ilduce]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Why so argumentative?

So don't argue, just accept that you are right? Ah, fond memories of the old CCCP, comrade.

Ozzie Osmond said:

The plain fact is that mid-engine cars tend to be pretty sensitive to set-up.

Playstation or Xbox. I think we should be told.

[ilduce]

edc said:

ilduce said:

edc said:

I merely said that I can feel a noticeable difference between an optimised set up and one that just lights up 'green'.

Just talking about you, on the phone to Roman Dumas, and he's sh'itting himself about not getting a drive next year.

That might be funny if I even knew or cared who he was. I'm not sure why people are so aggravated by another person's experience. I'm not sitting here denigrating you or anybody else but feel free to carry on.

In these days of the internet, nobody can plead ignorance, but you might be the exception that proves the rule.

Many thanks for your permission to continue belittling the world.

[Monkeynut21]

Thanks for the comments guys. I don't think I can justify £180 on setting the car up given that the range of adjustment is very limited and chances are for 95% of the time it would make no difference anyway. Even then I'm not sure I'm talented enough to benefit or notice the difference for the other 5% of the time.