CAM, what else?
Discussion
The time has come for me to put a hefty CAM in the GTS, just awaiting spec (asked for bigger than normaly fitted, with a decent idle noise) and price at the moment.
Question is, what else could/should I do at the same time?
It's alreay got the Walkinshaw headers and sports cats, 3" exhaust and OTR and is going on Charlies Dyno so I'll have a before and after comparison.
I've looked at, and asked Q's on a FAST intake but the response seemed to be that the stock LS3 intake is fine.
I'll ask about the limiter (if fitted) to be removed and maybe upping the REV's a tad.
I'm certainly not chucking a load of cash at this one, A) I don't think it needs it, B) Been there, done that.
Thanks all for your input
PS, don't bother mentioning SC's, too expensive and I've seen the light regarding day to day driving and speed differences
Question is, what else could/should I do at the same time?
It's alreay got the Walkinshaw headers and sports cats, 3" exhaust and OTR and is going on Charlies Dyno so I'll have a before and after comparison.
I've looked at, and asked Q's on a FAST intake but the response seemed to be that the stock LS3 intake is fine.
I'll ask about the limiter (if fitted) to be removed and maybe upping the REV's a tad.
I'm certainly not chucking a load of cash at this one, A) I don't think it needs it, B) Been there, done that.
Thanks all for your input
PS, don't bother mentioning SC's, too expensive and I've seen the light regarding day to day driving and speed differences
Amen Jesus 
Ok, a few things, you dont need a large cam to sound large.
You just need overlap, or drop idle speed. So dont go for large duration when you dont have to, performance off idle will suffer. You will go slower and FI will beat you! (As well as James in his Monaro!)
IMO go for a cam with 112 or 110 LSA and low to mid 22x/23x duration max
On the plus the LS3 wont handle a large duration due to p2v clearance.
Ok that being said, you will need new valve springs. Depending on cam beehives or the new conicals if you can get them are ideal. Or chuck duals in for some tolerance to ideal geometry.
Timing gear may be required if you buy the "wrong" cam. You might want a chain depending on existing mileage and pushrods as well.
Auto or Manual?
Also what air intake do you have? IMO you want ~900cfm which does not mean most/all OTRCAI or OEM with K&N etc
What headers? I hope you have 1-7/8 long tubes with 3" collectors to match your catback..
Ok, a few things, you dont need a large cam to sound large.
You just need overlap, or drop idle speed. So dont go for large duration when you dont have to, performance off idle will suffer. You will go slower and FI will beat you! (As well as James in his Monaro!)
IMO go for a cam with 112 or 110 LSA and low to mid 22x/23x duration max
On the plus the LS3 wont handle a large duration due to p2v clearance.
Ok that being said, you will need new valve springs. Depending on cam beehives or the new conicals if you can get them are ideal. Or chuck duals in for some tolerance to ideal geometry.
Timing gear may be required if you buy the "wrong" cam. You might want a chain depending on existing mileage and pushrods as well.
Auto or Manual?
Also what air intake do you have? IMO you want ~900cfm which does not mean most/all OTRCAI or OEM with K&N etc
What headers? I hope you have 1-7/8 long tubes with 3" collectors to match your catback..
I assumed the springs etc would all be part of the CAM upgrade cost? Surely the likes of Walkinshaw / Monkfisk CAM packages aren't just "CAM/REMAP" only ??
Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
Tattooboy said:
I assumed the springs etc would all be part of the CAM upgrade cost? Surely the likes of Walkinshaw / Monkfisk CAM packages aren't just "CAM/REMAP" only ??
Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
Walky headers with built in cats are 1 3/4... well they were when i asked the nice man a few weeks ago...Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
Ok so based on your comments, make sure cam is sensible in size!
It will be better in heavy traffic accelerate harder from a stop and up to normal speeds.
Large cams are for high rpm power, though if you like dropping the clutch at 3500rpm everywhere they will be fine too.
Totally depends on how you want it to drive. power pivots for the most part on peak torque (4400rpm)
So decide if you want overall gains (go for lift and increasing overlap)
Or you want more high end power, increase duration.
Make power broad by widening LSA.
You can also advance and retard the cam to adjust low or high end power by basically moving IVC.
Advance = earlier IVC = better low rpm torque and vica versa with retarding the cam for later IVC
All the above is why you really should know cam spec to know how your car will drive.
I guess you can rely on workshop to spec if for you. But driving is a personal experience and one person's preferences are not anothers as evidenced by the shocking use of stickers, carbon fibre, scoops etc that bods throw around their cars.
If you google cam spec sheets you will see what sort of questions you should be being asked.
It will be better in heavy traffic accelerate harder from a stop and up to normal speeds.
Large cams are for high rpm power, though if you like dropping the clutch at 3500rpm everywhere they will be fine too.
Totally depends on how you want it to drive. power pivots for the most part on peak torque (4400rpm)
So decide if you want overall gains (go for lift and increasing overlap)
Or you want more high end power, increase duration.
Make power broad by widening LSA.
You can also advance and retard the cam to adjust low or high end power by basically moving IVC.
Advance = earlier IVC = better low rpm torque and vica versa with retarding the cam for later IVC
All the above is why you really should know cam spec to know how your car will drive.
I guess you can rely on workshop to spec if for you. But driving is a personal experience and one person's preferences are not anothers as evidenced by the shocking use of stickers, carbon fibre, scoops etc that bods throw around their cars.
If you google cam spec sheets you will see what sort of questions you should be being asked.
ringram said:
Ok so based on your comments, make sure cam is sensible in size!
It will be better in heavy traffic accelerate harder from a stop and up to normal speeds.
Large cams are for high rpm power, though if you like dropping the clutch at 3500rpm everywhere they will be fine too.
Totally depends on how you want it to drive. power pivots for the most part on peak torque (4400rpm)
So decide if you want overall gains (go for lift and increasing overlap)
Or you want more high end power, increase duration.
Make power broad by widening LSA.
You can also advance and retard the cam to adjust low or high end power by basically moving IVC.
Advance = earlier IVC = better low rpm torque and vica versa with retarding the cam for later IVC
All the above is why you really should know cam spec to know how your car will drive.
I guess you can rely on workshop to spec if for you. But driving is a personal experience and one person's preferences are not anothers as evidenced by the shocking use of stickers, carbon fibre, scoops etc that bods throw around their cars.
If you google cam spec sheets you will see what sort of questions you should be being asked.
Many thanks Richard, will see what spec I get advised to go with, might just pm you the info if you don't mind to get your thoughts. It will be better in heavy traffic accelerate harder from a stop and up to normal speeds.
Large cams are for high rpm power, though if you like dropping the clutch at 3500rpm everywhere they will be fine too.
Totally depends on how you want it to drive. power pivots for the most part on peak torque (4400rpm)
So decide if you want overall gains (go for lift and increasing overlap)
Or you want more high end power, increase duration.
Make power broad by widening LSA.
You can also advance and retard the cam to adjust low or high end power by basically moving IVC.
Advance = earlier IVC = better low rpm torque and vica versa with retarding the cam for later IVC
All the above is why you really should know cam spec to know how your car will drive.
I guess you can rely on workshop to spec if for you. But driving is a personal experience and one person's preferences are not anothers as evidenced by the shocking use of stickers, carbon fibre, scoops etc that bods throw around their cars.
If you google cam spec sheets you will see what sort of questions you should be being asked.
S800VXR said:
Tattooboy said:
I assumed the springs etc would all be part of the CAM upgrade cost? Surely the likes of Walkinshaw / Monkfisk CAM packages aren't just "CAM/REMAP" only ??
Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
Walky headers with built in cats are 1 3/4... well they were when i asked the nice man a few weeks ago...Hearders are 1/78 but the cats are all part of the headers so I wouldn't call them Long Tubes !
CATS's look big enough to me, certainly no smaller than the one's I had on the Monaro !
Richard, come on, it's a manual, not a grandad box !!
Not sure on the airflow for the OTR, but it's the same as fitted to the W427's.
Remember, I'm not interested in track days etc so ultimate power is not my goal, but a little more acceleration would be nice, anything over 500 BHP Fly, would be ideal with a killer idle.
To be fair, I've been Rumed up a few times since then so I could be wrong, whatever they are, they are the Walkinshaw jobbies and it'll be interesting to see what I get on the dyno in a few weeks.
Ian. If you are doing cam (springs a must too) throw a set of GM Caddilac CTSV race lifters in there for the extra dosh. You might need new pushrods, depends. Don't buy a cam for the lope IMHO, as Rich says you can always drop the idle a bit for the same effect. Buy a cam to do a job. I can recommend for your motor a 224-232 on a 114 with some advance ground in. I had great results with that on dyno, 1/4 mile and one mile. Its drive able and really hops on at about 4K. I also made around 26mpg on a run with it. In fact its kicking about somewhere?
All IMHO of course. You could also get Pat Guerra to give you a rec' for a few dollars US.
All IMHO of course. You could also get Pat Guerra to give you a rec' for a few dollars US.
MyM8V8 said:
Ian. If you are doing cam (springs a must too) throw a set of GM Caddilac CTSV race lifters in there for the extra dosh. You might need new pushrods, depends. Don't buy a cam for the lope IMHO, as Rich says you can always drop the idle a bit for the same effect. Buy a cam to do a job. I can recommend for your motor a 224-232 on a 114 with some advance ground in. I had great results with that on dyno, 1/4 mile and one mile. Its drive able and really hops on at about 4K. I also made around 26mpg on a run with it. In fact its kicking about somewhere?
All IMHO of course. You could also get Pat Guerra to give you a rec' for a few dollars US.
Everything CAM related is a learning curve for me so any info is very much appreciated, all I can do is ask questions and listen to what info is provided from people that have done similiar and know betterAll IMHO of course. You could also get Pat Guerra to give you a rec' for a few dollars US.
I'm fairly certain that Walkinshaw will have some decent suggestions, their OZ team must have done a fair few LS3 GTS's ??
If you find that CAM Gareth, send me a PM
I can't really add anything to the above- some really good info/advice from Rich and Gareth.
My cam spec is 223/231 with 114 LSA, and the results speak for themselves- 400+ rwhp and second in class at T/R.
I spent well over a year (on and off) researching cam specs for my specific set-up. The researh pays off, as it gives you a good idea on how the car will drive/idle and the effect on economy/emissions etc.
The idle on a cammed car is fantastic. The power delivery is progressive (peak power at the rev limit for mine, so potentially scope to increase the limiter). It's grunty enough cruising around, but really rewards you when you put the effort in and wind it round. If that sounds like your driving style, then a cam is for you
My cam spec is 223/231 with 114 LSA, and the results speak for themselves- 400+ rwhp and second in class at T/R.
I spent well over a year (on and off) researching cam specs for my specific set-up. The researh pays off, as it gives you a good idea on how the car will drive/idle and the effect on economy/emissions etc.
The idle on a cammed car is fantastic. The power delivery is progressive (peak power at the rev limit for mine, so potentially scope to increase the limiter). It's grunty enough cruising around, but really rewards you when you put the effort in and wind it round. If that sounds like your driving style, then a cam is for you
Tattooboy said:
Everything CAM related is a learning curve for me so any info is very much appreciated, all I can do is ask questions and listen to what info is provided from people that have done similiar and know better
I'm fairly certain that Walkinshaw will have some decent suggestions, their OZ team must have done a fair few LS3 GTS's ??
If you find that CAM Gareth, send me a PM
Why don't you ask r8black for a drive in his car and then you will get a good feel for a cammed r8.I'm fairly certain that Walkinshaw will have some decent suggestions, their OZ team must have done a fair few LS3 GTS's ??
If you find that CAM Gareth, send me a PM
Plenty of R&D out there like this.. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrai...
etc.
Do searches for "daily driver" cams to get an idea and remember the US guys have cheap fuel so their dailies are large, but usually pretty stout.
etc.
Do searches for "daily driver" cams to get an idea and remember the US guys have cheap fuel so their dailies are large, but usually pretty stout.
Walkinshaw's won't remove the limiter. Australia won't let them.
Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
ARAF said:
Walkinshaw's won't remove the limiter. Australia won't let them.
Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
Little bit of scare mongering IMO. Its not rocket science.Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
With DIY there is little chance of making a mess if you DYOR properly.
I have always spec my own stuff for the last 10+ years. I find most advise given is not appropriate for me and represents someone's opinion. Personal experience and knowledge trump that all the time. Plus satisfaction is way higher knowing you have done it yourself.
Sample input from all and sundry for sure, but ultimately make your own mind up based on all the facts, not just one person's opinion.
Ultimately the selection is subjective, so don't let someone else subject you to their personal preferences..!
Definitely try and get a drive in a few different setups if possible.
ringram said:
ARAF said:
Walkinshaw's won't remove the limiter. Australia won't let them.
Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
Little bit of scare mongering IMO. Its not rocket science.Both Walkinshaw and Monkfish cam packages will include the correct pushrods, lifters, springs etc. You pay a little more, but get a package which is known to work. You will save money (or get uprated parts) by spec'ing everything yourself, but you could get it horribly wrong.
With DIY there is little chance of making a mess if you DYOR properly.
I have always spec my own stuff for the last 10+ years.
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