Disproportionate sentencing?

[SteveScooby]

Assault someone while you're drunk, a fine of 3 days wages:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-2940909...


Send some nasty messages on Twitter, 18 weeks imprisonment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29411031

[anonymous-user]

Yes, disproportionate. Hate speech is still just speech, and criminalising it is questionable. The sentencing here is way out of whack.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 29th September 16:34

[John145]

One is a stupid moment the other is a concerted attack.

TBH I'm well on the side of freedom of speech but crossing a line repeatedly and that significantly deserves punishment.

[Rovinghawk]

The fine was 3 days' wages. OTOH the fine was £3500.

Not defending anything here, just pointing out that the '3 days' wages' thing is a bit misleading.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Breadvan72 said:

Yes, disproportionate. Hate speech is still just speech, and criminalising it is questionable. The senetencing here is way out of whack.

Threatening to rape a woman because you disagree with her over who should be on a banknote is pretty awful. She must have been terrified, given she was a public figure in her area so her address would be easily available. 18 weeks seems fine to me. Longer would have been fine.

[SteveScooby]

Rovinghawk said:

The fine was 3 days' wages. OTOH the fine was £3500.

Not defending anything here, just pointing out that the '3 days' wages' thing is a bit misleading.

My point being that a fine of £3k, to someone who "earns" £10k a week is pretty irrelevant

[John145]

Rovinghawk said:

The fine was 3 days' wages. OTOH the fine was £3500.

Not defending anything here, just pointing out that the '3 days' wages' thing is a bit misleading.

Support for all fines being % of earnings based?

[walm]

John145 said:

Rovinghawk said:

The fine was 3 days' wages. OTOH the fine was £3500.

Not defending anything here, just pointing out that the '3 days' wages' thing is a bit misleading.

Support for all fines being % of earnings based?

You realise that X days wages is the same thing as a % of earnings - right?

[John145]

walm said:

John145 said:

Rovinghawk said:

The fine was 3 days' wages. OTOH the fine was £3500.

Not defending anything here, just pointing out that the '3 days' wages' thing is a bit misleading.

Support for all fines being % of earnings based?

You realise that X days wages is the same thing as a % of earnings - right?

...

3k for someone on minimum wage could be 30% of their salary, therefore it is logical that the punishment should not be a figure in GBP but in % annual income is my suggestion.

I'm sure the sentence wasn't given as "you must pay 3 days wages!"...

[photosnob]

John145 said:

...

3k for someone on minimum wage could be 30% of their salary, therefore it is logical that the punishment should not be a figure in GBP but in % annual income is my suggestion.

I'm sure the sentence wasn't given as "you must pay 3 days wages!"...

Fines are meant to be in multiples of your weekly salary.

Look what they have done with him in costs. For a guilty plea 4k is scandalous.

[otolith]

Oh, it's a footballer. How surprising.

[Mr2Mike]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Threatening to rape a woman because you disagree with her over who should be on a banknote is pretty awful.

It's a pretty revolting thing to do I agree, but the sentencing simply suggests he would have been better off physically assaulting her. Do you think that would have been less stressful for her? But maybe assaulting an MP is somehow worse than assaulting a police officer?

TwigtheWonderkid said:

She must have been terrified.

Sounds like she was laying it on with a trowel quite honestly. Being a public figure probably isn't a great career choide if you are such a wallflower that you get dizzy spells after some nut job posts threats on social media.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 29th September 17:27

[ED209]

Tompkins assaulted a police officer, what do you expect him to get? prison?

Gone are the days when people got stiff punishment for assaulting public servants, the wishy washy punishments handed out now give the impression to the public that its acceptable to go around assaulting cops.

[mph1977]

Mr2Mike said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Threatening to rape a woman because you disagree with her over who should be on a banknote is pretty awful.

It's a pretty revolting thing to do I agree, but the sentencing simply suggests he would have been better off physically assaulting her. Do you think that would have been less stressful for her? But maybe assaulting an MP is somehow worse than assaulting a police officer?

TwigtheWonderkid said:

She must have been terrified.

Sounds like she was laying it on with a trowel quite honestly. Being a public figure probably isn't a great career choide if you are such a wallflower that you get dizzy spells after some nut job posts threats on social media.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 29th September 17:27

bullying and psychologicla attacks can have far greater repercussions and long lasting effects for the victim than many physical attacks ...

also many people undertaking cyberbullying do so 'for teh lolz' not realising in their tiny minds the damage they do to their victims.

[walm]

photosnob said:

John145 said:

...

3k for someone on minimum wage could be 30% of their salary, therefore it is logical that the punishment should not be a figure in GBP but in % annual income is my suggestion.

I'm sure the sentence wasn't given as "you must pay 3 days wages!"...

Fines are meant to be in multiples of your weekly salary.

Look what they have done with him in costs. For a guilty plea 4k is scandalous.

Serves me right for not reading the whole thing.
I thought the fines WERE multiples of weekly salary.
Hence I thought it really was "please pay up 3 days wages"!!

[GrumpyTwig]

The articles don't give a full picture, particularly as it doesn't describe what the 'Assault' entailed. The chap sending the messages sounds like he needs psychological help more than imprisonment though.

[Aretnap]

walm said:

Serves me right for not reading the whole thing.
I thought the fines WERE multiples of weekly salary.
Hence I thought it really was "please pay up 3 days wages"!!

In practice they are for most people, but they're still capped at a statutory maximum (£5000 for assault IIRC) which means the "percentage of weekly income" guideline doesn't work for the very wealthy. Add in the fact that magistrates aren't supposed to give the maximum penalty for a first offence, and credit for a guilty plea, and the magistrates probably fined him as much as they thought they could.

Maybe the statutory maximum should be scrapped and replaced with a pure unit fines system, as in Switzerland where you can be fined £600K for speeding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

[ruff'n'smov]

SteveScooby said:

Assault someone while you're drunk, a fine of 3 days wages:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-2940909...


Send some nasty messages on Twitter, 18 weeks imprisonment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29411031

The assault may not have caused any physical harm, or it would have said in the report, (but maybe not st reporting) so 3.5k for pushing a probably fit, and healthy copper in the chest is proportionate IMO

18 weeks for threatening to rape someone, not enough again IMO

Who was the most worried/concerned after each offence was committed ?

[ruff'n'smov]

SteveScooby said:

Assault someone while you're drunk, a fine of 3 days wages:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-2940909...


Send some nasty messages on Twitter, 18 weeks imprisonment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29411031

The assault may not have caused any physical harm, or it would have said in the report, (but maybe not st reporting) so 3.5k for pushing a probably fit, and healthy copper in the chest is proportionate IMO

18 weeks for threatening to rape someone, not enough again IMO

Who was the most worried/concerned after each offence was committed ?

[johnny fotze]

I don't know the seriousness of the assault, but there was a time when assaulting a police officer was a very serious offence. But back then threatening to do something in imaginationland was no offence at all.