Has anyone seen marks like this on a Chim before.?
Discussion
Hi Chaps,
I was looking at a Chimaera yesterday and it had what I can only describe as irregular "dimples" or belimishes clearly visible down either side of the front wings, just inside the bonnet lip along the top 1" or so. Personally I've never seen a Chim with marks like this, as they've all been "smooth as a baby's bum" in this area.. has anyone else..? I don't want to start rumours of repairs without some good reasons.
Photo's don't really show it too well I'm afraid.. its present on both sides, and runs for about 18" to 2ft in the area shown..
Many thanks for your input
Matt.
I was looking at a Chimaera yesterday and it had what I can only describe as irregular "dimples" or belimishes clearly visible down either side of the front wings, just inside the bonnet lip along the top 1" or so. Personally I've never seen a Chim with marks like this, as they've all been "smooth as a baby's bum" in this area.. has anyone else..? I don't want to start rumours of repairs without some good reasons.
Photo's don't really show it too well I'm afraid.. its present on both sides, and runs for about 18" to 2ft in the area shown..
Many thanks for your input
Matt.
I'd put money on that car having been repaired, that hexagon looking thing covered in paint is where the mid-bonnet support bobbin is supposed to be, and is the reason why the bonnet shut line in the top pic is blinking awful. It's got the later faired in headlamps by the look of things so a recent car? If all this appears to be true then buy it if it's cheap and is otherwise in good condition
edited to add : the matt black paint line is poor and the inner wing reflaction is very wavy .. start asking some questions ..
>> Edited by joospeed on Wednesday 22 December 09:21
edited to add : the matt black paint line is poor and the inner wing reflaction is very wavy .. start asking some questions ..
>> Edited by joospeed on Wednesday 22 December 09:21
Looks to me like the bonnet has be resprayed without adequate preparation. Having a resprayed bonnet/nose is the norm on these cars as I'm sure you know, but it still needs to be rubbed down/prepped properly.
Doesn't necessarily mean accident damage. Look underneath - are the wishbones each side in a similar condition? Are all the chassis bits the same colour? Does it look like the inner wing (or inside wheel arch) has seen any repaiting/repair?.
Doesn't necessarily mean accident damage. Look underneath - are the wishbones each side in a similar condition? Are all the chassis bits the same colour? Does it look like the inner wing (or inside wheel arch) has seen any repaiting/repair?.
Ok to add some detail.. the whole front has been resprayed, and there are signs of minor cosmetic repair under the numberplate. Other than that the car looks 100% straight, chassis OK, wishbones OK, drives well etc etc. Bonnet hinges perfect too..
My niggling doubt is that this car has covered a whopping 11,000 miles and has had a full f/e spray, and also paint to a lot of the rear starting at the panels behind the doors. Again no sign of any structural damage anywhere though.. I'm wondering if its had a 360 and a very mild brush with a hedge or something, meaning no "damage" but a need for all the paint.
As for price etc.. normal market rate, its in a dealership... nothing in the Service History of course.
Matt.
Edited to add.. oh and the only other thing which is niggling me is that the black paint inside the wheelarches is flaking off at the back to expose the fibreglass.. now why would it be doing that I wonder.
>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 22 December 09:35
My niggling doubt is that this car has covered a whopping 11,000 miles and has had a full f/e spray, and also paint to a lot of the rear starting at the panels behind the doors. Again no sign of any structural damage anywhere though.. I'm wondering if its had a 360 and a very mild brush with a hedge or something, meaning no "damage" but a need for all the paint.
As for price etc.. normal market rate, its in a dealership... nothing in the Service History of course.
Matt.
Edited to add.. oh and the only other thing which is niggling me is that the black paint inside the wheelarches is flaking off at the back to expose the fibreglass.. now why would it be doing that I wonder.
>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 22 December 09:35
not really I'm afriad Jules.. only a corker showing the paint match from door to rear arch on the passenger side.
I'm a bit concerned really as I was asked to do an inspection after the bloke had agreed to buy the car..(pending inspection result) On the one hand I don't want to mess the sale up for either party, but on the other hand I have some niggly doubts that I just can't really express in words.. just a bit of a feeling IYKWIM.
Cheers,
Matt.
I'm a bit concerned really as I was asked to do an inspection after the bloke had agreed to buy the car..(pending inspection result) On the one hand I don't want to mess the sale up for either party, but on the other hand I have some niggly doubts that I just can't really express in words.. just a bit of a feeling IYKWIM.
Cheers,
Matt.
Podie said:
I take it nothing has appeared on the HPI register then…?
Any chance you can speak to a previous owner…?
I think all you can do is say to the prospective purchaser that you have doubts on the cars history because of "x, y, z" and therefore IF they purchase the car etc etc...
Hi Pods, Happy Chirstmas!
..yep thats exactly what I have done so far, I've suggested he gets some clarificatoin from the dealer on the work done to the car before going any further.. I'm not chasing around the previous owners as TBH as they traded in the car to the dealer and the dealer isn't aware of any previous damage to the car then its not my place to really.. also there's only "so far" I'm going to go forensically on a car for an inspection, I guess I was just airing my concerns on here and it seems that I'm right to be bothered by these marks. I'mm writing the report up for the chap now..
Cheers,
Matt.
Hi Matt,
I would be very slightly concerned given the mileage etc, do you have a link to the car??
Two ways of looking at it, it could be suspect, in which case I would walk away.
Or
If the rest of the car outways these issues massively, it's a bloody good bargaining point mate.
No easy answer.
I would be very slightly concerned given the mileage etc, do you have a link to the car??
Two ways of looking at it, it could be suspect, in which case I would walk away.
Or
If the rest of the car outways these issues massively, it's a bloody good bargaining point mate.
No easy answer.
M@H said:
I take it nothing has appeared on the HPI register then…?
Any chance you can speak to a previous owner…?
I think all you can do is say to the prospective purchaser that you have doubts on the cars history because of "x, y, z" and therefore IF they purchase the car etc etc...
Hi Pods, Happy Chirstmas!
..yep thats exactly what I have done so far, I've suggested he gets some clarificatoin from the dealer on the work done to the car before going any further.. I'm not chasing around the previous owners as TBH as they traded in the car to the dealer and the dealer isn't aware of any previous damage to the car then its not my place to really.. also there's only "so far" I'm going to go forensically on a car for an inspection, I guess I was just airing my concerns on here and it seems that I'm right to be bothered by these marks. I'mm writing the report up for the chap now..
Cheers,
Matt.
Happy Christmas mate...
By the sounds of it you've done everything I would consider to be reasonable...
Sounds like a caveat might be required though...
I don't now your level of knowledge so please forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs, however having had a little experience with composites one of the lesser known problems is that of delamination.
What can happen is the layers of material that make up the body can separate - usually due to a physical shock impact (hammer blow, crash you get the idea). Whilst the layers and the structure are now weaker the elastic nature of composite means it returns to its original shape - so you cannot see the damage. Over time moisture can sometimes seep through the layers into the voids. This moisure can then produce an uneven surface. (but not always).
In the case of this car if it has had a small impact to the wing then the outer part may have cracked and been repaired but the shock of impact can travel much further creating the delamination.
One simple test (used frequently in the aviation industry) is the "Tap Test". This requires a speciallist piece of test equipment - the £1 coin. You the gently tap (note the words gentle and tap) repeatedly across the body of the car and listen to the sound you get. The sound from good composite is a flatish "solid" sound, if the composite has delaminated the sound is more hollow. If you have never done this before it is a good idea to pratice on a known good car to understand the "solid" sound before you try it on a dubious one. The real big clue on the subject car is the change in sound across the area. As you tap across it the sound will change and that is delamination.
TVR's manufacturing techniques almost guarantee there is no delamination during build so if you find some then it had been shocked at some point in time (probably an accident).
What can happen is the layers of material that make up the body can separate - usually due to a physical shock impact (hammer blow, crash you get the idea). Whilst the layers and the structure are now weaker the elastic nature of composite means it returns to its original shape - so you cannot see the damage. Over time moisture can sometimes seep through the layers into the voids. This moisure can then produce an uneven surface. (but not always).
In the case of this car if it has had a small impact to the wing then the outer part may have cracked and been repaired but the shock of impact can travel much further creating the delamination.
One simple test (used frequently in the aviation industry) is the "Tap Test". This requires a speciallist piece of test equipment - the £1 coin. You the gently tap (note the words gentle and tap) repeatedly across the body of the car and listen to the sound you get. The sound from good composite is a flatish "solid" sound, if the composite has delaminated the sound is more hollow. If you have never done this before it is a good idea to pratice on a known good car to understand the "solid" sound before you try it on a dubious one. The real big clue on the subject car is the change in sound across the area. As you tap across it the sound will change and that is delamination.
TVR's manufacturing techniques almost guarantee there is no delamination during build so if you find some then it had been shocked at some point in time (probably an accident).
Hard to tell from the pictures, but I had a few goose bumps on mine last year. The fibre experts I spoke to thought it was probably where capillary action in the fibres of the GRP where moisture had got through. This made some sense as it was in areas where lots of water got dumped when I was washing it.
I think that the blemishes, or marks could be just caused by over application of paint than repairs to the body work. As has been said above the car looks 100% straight with ok chassis and wishbones etc. Silver is particularly prone to this problem as the heavier you layer it the more metallic particles are laid and you will tend to get darker patches where the paint is thicker as the metallic particles will rise to the top of the painted layer. As the blemishes are on edges, I think this could be that has caused it.
M@H said:
I take it nothing has appeared on the HPI register then…?
Any chance you can speak to a previous owner…?
I think all you can do is say to the prospective purchaser that you have doubts on the cars history because of "x, y, z" and therefore IF they purchase the car etc etc...
Hi Pods, Happy Chirstmas!
..yep thats exactly what I have done so far, I've suggested he gets some clarificatoin from the dealer on the work done to the car before going any further.. I'm not chasing around the previous owners as TBH as they traded in the car to the dealer and the dealer isn't aware of any previous damage to the car then its not my place to really.. also there's only "so far" I'm going to go forensically on a car for an inspection, I guess I was just airing my concerns on here and it seems that I'm right to be bothered by these marks. I'mm writing the report up for the chap now..
Cheers,
Matt.
Don't wan't to be a kiljoy, but, presumably you are proposing to spend a significant amount of cash on the car - if you are not 100% sure i would walk away.
There are plenty of straight, decent cars about and when i was looking, the looking was part of the fun!
Sorry if you have been looking for ages and you are an expert - just my thoughts! What ever you end up with hope you enjoy it - Merry Christmas to all
joospeed said:
I'd put money on that car having been repaired, that hexagon looking thing covered in paint is where the mid-bonnet support bobbin is supposed to be, and is the reason why the bonnet shut line in the top pic is blinking awful. It's got the later faired in headlamps by the look of things so a recent car? If all this appears to be true then buy it if it's cheap and is otherwise in good condition
edited to add : the matt black paint line is poor and the inner wing reflaction is very wavy .. start asking some questions ..
>> Edited by joospeed on Wednesday 22 December 09:21
Totally agree, I would assume that there has been significant surgery here, and not very tidily finished / much attention to detail either.
tahiti450 said:
I'd put money on that car having been repaired, that hexagon looking thing covered in paint is where the mid-bonnet support bobbin is supposed to be, and is the reason why the bonnet shut line in the top pic is blinking awful.
edited to add : the matt black paint line is poor and the inner wing reflaction is very wavy .. start asking some questions ..
Totally agree, I would assume that there has been significant surgery here, and not very tidily finished / much attention to detail either.
I'm with this line of thought as well.
What happened M@H? Did it get sold?
Matt,
Happy Xmas good friend ..... walk away from it. I agree with everything Joolz has said.
It does not look right, and quality repairs will not show through like that, you need to really look for them.
Bad quality repairs are a nightmare with FG, if they have not done the correct 'deep work' then it will delaminate later and you'll have to do all the work again.
A good repairer will understand FG and the other areas on the car that will have been affected but not showing signs of damage to the upper layers and will repair these at the same time, making it very expensive to repair comparatively to metal ......
With so many issues around the body work I would be uncomfortable about it ...
Happy Xmas good friend ..... walk away from it. I agree with everything Joolz has said.
It does not look right, and quality repairs will not show through like that, you need to really look for them.
Bad quality repairs are a nightmare with FG, if they have not done the correct 'deep work' then it will delaminate later and you'll have to do all the work again.
A good repairer will understand FG and the other areas on the car that will have been affected but not showing signs of damage to the upper layers and will repair these at the same time, making it very expensive to repair comparatively to metal ......
With so many issues around the body work I would be uncomfortable about it ...
johno said:
Matt,
Happy Xmas good friend ..... walk away from it. I agree with everything Joolz has said.
It does not look right, and quality repairs will not show through like that, you need to really look for them.
Bad quality repairs are a nightmare with FG, if they have not done the correct 'deep work' then it will delaminate later and you'll have to do all the work again.
A good repairer will understand FG and the other areas on the car that will have been affected but not showing signs of damage to the upper layers and will repair these at the same time, making it very expensive to repair comparatively to metal ......
With so many issues around the body work I would be uncomfortable about it ...
Hiya Mark,
Happy Christmas to you too, and a Happy new Year.
I agree 100% with what you are saying, I think that you (and some others) havn't noted I've done an independent inspection on this one for a buyer hence the tiptoe about a bit. I've told the chap on the phone that personally I wouldn't buy the car as I'd rather have a 100% perfect looking car, but as Jools said earlier in the thread, at the right price it might well be a good buy (though not at A1 condition dealer price). Accordingly not my decision to make on whether it gets purchased or not.
The potential buyer is reading these posts too, and is thinking of getting the car looked at by a TVR
experienced bodyshop... any suggestions on a good one in the South East (the car is in East Sussex) from anyone...?
Cheers,
Matt.
(PS to someone else, no its not a 500)
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