Employment Law-demotion with reduction in salary
Discussion
Twelve years employed in a management position with employer, six months ago given new roll within the company. No increase in salary came with the new roll, but now company say not suitable for the new roll, and therefore want to demote employment status, with a 20%, £12k reduction in salary.
Employer have put this in writing, advising that if the demotion and cut in salary is not accepted, then an "investigation" and disciplinary action could be started, possibly resulting in dismissal.
What action can an employee take to support their position.
Employer have put this in writing, advising that if the demotion and cut in salary is not accepted, then an "investigation" and disciplinary action could be started, possibly resulting in dismissal.
What action can an employee take to support their position.
What reasons have they given that makes you unsuitable for the role?
Is it a case of underperformance or not having the right skill set to 'maximize' the role?
Did you receive training for it or was it a case of being chucked in at the deep end?
Did you receive a new contract to go with the new role? If so, does it say anything about targets, probation periods, etc?
Lastly, have you been 'performance reviewed' prior to this and if so, were any issues raised?
Is it a case of underperformance or not having the right skill set to 'maximize' the role?
Did you receive training for it or was it a case of being chucked in at the deep end?
Did you receive a new contract to go with the new role? If so, does it say anything about targets, probation periods, etc?
Lastly, have you been 'performance reviewed' prior to this and if so, were any issues raised?
valiant said:
What reasons have they given that makes you unsuitable for the role?
Is it a case of underperformance or not having the right skill set to 'maximize' the role?
Did you receive training for it or was it a case of being chucked in at the deep end?
Did you receive a new contract to go with the new role? If so, does it say anything about targets, probation periods, etc?
Lastly, have you been 'performance reviewed' prior to this and if so, were any issues raised?
Not myself, daughter, received no training, no verbal warnings, no new contract and no probation period. I believe it is more a case of a new director wanting to bring in his old school buddy. Incidentally they want to reduce her salary below what she was earning prior to be given the new role.Is it a case of underperformance or not having the right skill set to 'maximize' the role?
Did you receive training for it or was it a case of being chucked in at the deep end?
Did you receive a new contract to go with the new role? If so, does it say anything about targets, probation periods, etc?
Lastly, have you been 'performance reviewed' prior to this and if so, were any issues raised?
Contact an employment solicitor.
If the company has not followed the correct disciplinary procedure then your daughters solicitor may look at constructive dismissal.
ACAS website and uk.gov give some good starting advice.
https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructi...
also look at
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/employment/constructi...
If the company has not followed the correct disciplinary procedure then your daughters solicitor may look at constructive dismissal.
ACAS website and uk.gov give some good starting advice.
https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructi...
also look at
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/employment/constructi...
If the facts are as stated (always a big if on PH) then the employee has an arguable claim that the employer is repudiating the contract. The employee could leave and claim constructive unfair dismissal. This is a high stakes strategy. Better perhaps to start with a grievance and then see if the employer will pay for an agreed exit, as it appears that the employer may want the employee to go anyway. At a salary of £60K, the employee can afford at least some initial legal advice. I recommend David Ludlow at Barlow Robbins as a decent mid price employment specialist.
The facts are as stated, although with share options the monies would be more than tenfold the salary of £60k.
I have suggested to my daughter that she makes an appointment with a law firm you have previously recommended, namely Shakespeares and with Mark Beesley.
My posting was mainly an attempt to fill the void, and to prepare information that might be useful to produce at the above meeting.
I have suggested to my daughter that she makes an appointment with a law firm you have previously recommended, namely Shakespeares and with Mark Beesley.
My posting was mainly an attempt to fill the void, and to prepare information that might be useful to produce at the above meeting.
Does this company have a HR division? I can't see any decent HR bod letting this one fly as it seems the company is on very dodgy ground and using very questionable tactics. It might be the case of a particular manager 'winging' it and trying to scare her into accepting the move by holding a disciplinary over her head. Seen that many times.
You'll probably have to exhaust the company's internal grievience (sp?) procedures first but a little pressure first by way of a letter from an employment expert may help with any future negotiations.
Might also want to check out ACAS.
You'll probably have to exhaust the company's internal grievience (sp?) procedures first but a little pressure first by way of a letter from an employment expert may help with any future negotiations.
Might also want to check out ACAS.
This sort of thing is a legal minefield and you need proper legal advice. Check to see if your home insurance covers legal fees (you might be surprised) and present the procedural facts to your advisor. Procedure is king in this sort of area and unless they have a really good HR dept most managers are little more than barrack rooms lawyers. A real lawyer might scare the pants off them.
However, reading between the lines she needs to start looking for a new job. All you can really do now is get as much cash as you can from the in a compromise agreement. The more ammo you have the more advantageous it will be for them to pay you off. Don't rely on recollection of conversations from here on in so record them either openly or covertly.
These sort of situations are a lot like poker. It's about front. Don't let them intimidate you and be as professional as you can be.
However, reading between the lines she needs to start looking for a new job. All you can really do now is get as much cash as you can from the in a compromise agreement. The more ammo you have the more advantageous it will be for them to pay you off. Don't rely on recollection of conversations from here on in so record them either openly or covertly.
These sort of situations are a lot like poker. It's about front. Don't let them intimidate you and be as professional as you can be.
Edited by Blue383 on Friday 3rd October 22:55
Terminator X said:
Employment terms can't be altered without agreement. Just say no.
TX.
Sadly, this is not correct. I have seen numerous examples where employment terms were altered by the employer after due notice was given and correct procedures followed (these were multinational firms with very professional HR people, fully au fait with employment law, not cowboy outfits).TX.
In one case the company changed from 5 day to 7 day working, needless to say most of the staff were not mad keen on the idea, and the barrack room lawyers started spouting the usual 'they can't do this' nonsense, but they were wrong, and they did.
In another case the company decided to no longer provide company cars to middle management as part of their remuneration package. Due notice was given (IIRC it was 12 months), and 'compensation' given ranged from £750 p.a. to zero
Obvious reaction was 'they should have got proper legal advice' - several did and got nowhere.
Vizsla said:
Terminator X said:
Employment terms can't be altered without agreement. Just say no.
TX.
Sadly, this is not correct. I have seen numerous examples where employment terms were altered by the employer after due notice was given and correct procedures followed (these were multinational firms with very professional HR people, fully au fait with employment law, not cowboy outfits).TX.
In one case the company changed from 5 day to 7 day working, needless to say most of the staff were not mad keen on the idea, and the barrack room lawyers started spouting the usual 'they can't do this' nonsense, but they were wrong, and they did.
In another case the company decided to no longer provide company cars to middle management as part of their remuneration package. Due notice was given (IIRC it was 12 months), and 'compensation' given ranged from £750 p.a. to zero
Obvious reaction was 'they should have got proper legal advice' - several did and got nowhere.
h but end up taking the changes as they can't afford to lose their job or afford to take legal action. It's st but that's the way it is.I had a similar situation earlier this year, where my previous employer bullied through some amazingly bad changes & threatened us with dismissal if we refused the new contracts. Their behaviour disgusted me, so I started looking for a new job , but signed the new contract with a slight negotiation on my notice period, and the HR b
h who forced it through thought she had "won".Glad to say I got a new job ( & a 40% pay rise!) and handed my months notice in with a big smile, knowing that the company needed me a hell of a lot more than I needed them. Since then 6 other highly skilled & hard to replace staff ( it takes 6 months to 1 year to train someone to a legal standard) have left, and the company are in dire straights as they pissed off their workforce so badly.
I would love to see the company fail just to show the management how out of touch they are, but I'm hoping it scrapes through just because of the excellent colleagues I left behind
End of the day it is better just to vote with your feet & improve your life rather than getting dragged into legal battles IMHO.
Breadvan72 said:
In general, employment terms can NOT be altered without agreement, but an employer can in effect force a change by threatening to dismiss an employee who will not agree to the change. Such a dismissal can be fair if the employer can show a pressing business need for the change.
Regrettably this is the route the senior management are taking, refuse the demotion and reduction in salary, and there will be a disciplinary hearing followed by possible dismissal.Her, my daughter's reduction in salary will take her salary back to pre 2008, and although there is a meeting with your recommended firm of solicitors, taking the financial salary cut on the chin, and waiting for the flotation of the shares, might at this point in time be the best option to take.
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