Got rid of runflats - what a difference!

[schmalex]

Sadly, I got a puncture last night so took my car to the tyre place this morning to see if could be fixed or get the tyre replaced. As I'd had to drive on the RFT with no pressure in it for a few miles, the tyre was declared knackered (fair enough). However, I was able to negotiate 4 x normal Pirelli P Zeros to £660, which I thought wasn't too bad a price to pay for 2 x 275/35/19 on the rear and 2 x 245/40/19 on the front.

I digress. Upon driving the car afterwards, it is totally transformed. The harsh, jittery ride has gone, the car feels much more planted and the road noise has reduced to less than half what it was with the RFT's on.

Whilst the Run Flat was good in as far as I could drive the car to the tyre place with a flat, this small convenience compared to the PITA of feeling like you're driving on ice with a crashy ride for the rest of the time just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Just got to pick up a can of tyre goo on the way home and all is good.

[Nuggety]

They're not called 'run like sts'
for nothing

[Monty Python]

That's what happens when you get 19" wheels - totally unsuited for the real world. I've got P-Zero RFTs on 18" wheels and they're very good (much much better than the Bridgestones I had originally).

[r11co]

Monty Python said:

I've got P-Zero RFTs on 18" wheels and they're very good (much much better than the Bridgestones I had originally).

I got rid of 18" RFTs on my 330i and I noticed a massive improvement in grip, refinement and roadholding.

RFTs are a sacrificial part - they may allow you to drive on for a certain distance at reduced speed but the manufacturers accept that they will be unusable as a proper tyre ever after. They are one step worse than a space-saver, which at least is re-usable. IMO that makes them an expensive option for the end user, especially when replaced like-for-like. Worse still that they compromise the vehicle all the time for the sake of their one-off party piece.

I now have a space-saver spare and jack inside a mountain-bike wheel bag for emergencies. The cost of the non-runflats and the spare wheel package was still hundreds less than a new set of RFTs.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 9th October 14:41

[rallycross]

It does make a huge different on a BMW with large wheels and low profile tyres.
That was a good price for those tyres in those sizes.
Re' using a tyre moose how much do you need for it to work in such a large size, has anyone tried tyre repair foam in large wheels?

I've got a can in the boot for my 18" non runflats but not sure its enough.

[Sump]

I never really saw a problem with them on my E90 Sport.

[jon-]

The latest (4th generation I believe) runflats are much better, but they're still inherently heavier and stiffer than normal tyres, which causes comfort and tramlining issues.

The seal technology is a good compromise, but not yet widely adopted.

[schmalex]

Monty Python said:

That's what happens when you get 19" wheels...

Not my choice, sadly. My previous car had 18" wheels and it was much more comfortable even with RFT's (same car, same spec)

[toon10]

Sump said:

I never really saw a problem with them on my E90 Sport.

They're not as bad as the Internet made out but I prefer normal tyres on my E90 Sport. The RFT's were a lot more crashy on speed bumps. The none RFT tyres don't feel as sharp when you're cornering hard as there's a bit more play in them but 95% of the time, I just want a more comnfortable ride.

[xxChrisxx]

toon10 said:

They're not as bad as the Internet made out but I prefer normal tyres on my E90 Sport. The RFT's were a lot more crashy on speed bumps. The none RFT tyres don't feel as sharp when you're cornering hard as there's a bit more play in them but 95% of the time, I just want a more comnfortable ride.

I find it odd that people want a comfy ride (not specifically referring to yourself) yet spec huge wheels and the stiff sporty suspension.

It's like choosing to run a marathon in skinny jeans and winklepickers then complaining that your feet hurt and your cocks a tad chafed.

[r11co]

Sump said:

I never really saw a problem with them on my E90 Sport.

You don't appreciate how much they spoil the car until you get rid. Also, you don't appreciate how crap they are as an emergency measure until you actually have to use them that way.

[JakeT]

xxChrisxx said:

I find it odd that people want a comfy ride (not specifically referring to yourself) yet spec huge wheels and the stiff sporty suspension.

It's like choosing to run a marathon in skinny jeans and winklepickers then complaining that your feet hurt and your cocks a tad chafed.

And as I am here reading this in my boxers after taking my skinny jeans off... You could not be more right.

[r11co]

xxChrisxx said:

I find it odd that people want a comfy ride (not specifically referring to yourself) yet spec huge wheels and the stiff sporty suspension.

That's not really the issue here. The point is that RFTs compromise the ride more than is necessary for that size of tyre in order to carry a 'benefit' that is limited, rarely used and expensive to the end user.

To extend your analogy - it is a bit like running a marathon in a pair of wellies (even if the weather forecast says sunny for the duration) just in case it floods. The welllies will compromise your race performance all the time, and would be no use if the water level gets above your knees anyway.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 9th October 15:51

[toon10]

xxChrisxx said:

I find it odd that people want a comfy ride (not specifically referring to yourself) yet spec huge wheels and the stiff sporty suspension.

It's like choosing to run a marathon in skinny jeans and winklepickers then complaining that your feet hurt and your cocks a tad chafed.

I'd rather have a sporty ride than a comfy one hence the Sport model on 18" wheels however, with normal tyres, the car is still sporty, just more comfortable. With RFT's the car is a tad more sharp but quite harsh when you just want to cruise. (If that makes sense?)

[xxChrisxx]

toon10 said:

I'd rather have a sporty ride than a comfy one hence the Sport model on 18" wheels however, with normal tyres, the car is still sporty, just more comfortable. With RFT's the car is a tad more sharp but quite harsh when you just want to cruise. (If that makes sense?)

It does make perfect sense. It's also a subjective opinion, and the nature of subjective opinions are you rarely get two alike.

The problem in not runflats per-se. It's German vehicle evaluation drivers having nice smooth tarmac to evaluate the ride and handling on. UK roads are like Belgian Pave in comparison.

I have the E90 SE on 17s on Conti runflats. The ride is generally fine, but you need to get the tyre pressures bob on. Too high, it's awful and crashy, too low and it tramlines. 38 on the fronts and 40 on the rear is my sweet spot.

Edit: Like I said it's not specifically you I was referring to. It's more the people that will never ever drive the car to it's limit. The suspension could be made out of blancmange and it'd still get them round corners at the speed they ask the car to go.

You could honestly just stick on a "sport" badge, do nothing else to the car, and 99% of the driver's would never ever tell the difference.

Edited by xxChrisxx on Thursday 9th October 16:14

Edited by xxChrisxx on Thursday 9th October 16:15

[Marc p]

Getting rid of the run flats on my old E60 was the best thing I did to it.

[blindswelledrat]

Nuggety said:

They're not called 'run like sts'
for nothing

They're not called that at all.

Doesn't even work, even ignoring the fact that it isn't clever to do that to names of things.

[r11co]

xxChrisxx said:

The problem in not runflats per-se. It's German vehicle evaluation drivers having nice smooth tarmac to evaluate the ride and handling on. UK roads are like Belgian Pave in comparison.

I have the E90 SE on 17s on Conti runflats. The ride is generally fine, but you need to get the tyre pressures bob on. Too high, it's awful and crashy, too low and it tramlines. 38 on the fronts and 40 on the rear is my sweet spot.

I agree with your point about 'horses for courses' and the firmer ride being less of an issue on properly surfaced roads, but you're admitting that the RFTs are still a performance compromise.

The manufacturers of self-supporting runflats put very stringent limits on their use (80km maximum distance at 80km/h) after which they accept that the tyre is scrap. That is a high price to pay for the small level of convenience they offer regardless of their performance compromise.

Even someone not intending changing from RFTs would be better obtaining a space saver and fitting it in the event of a puncture rather than sacrificially using their RFT which might otherwise have been repairable.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 9th October 17:30

[schmalex]

r11co said:

I agree with your point about 'horses for courses' and the firmer ride being less of an issue on properly surfaced roads, but you're admitting that the RFTs are still a performance compromise.

The manufacturers of self-supporting runflats put very stringent limits on their use (80km maximum distance at 80km/h) after which they accept that the tyre is scrap. That is a high price to pay for the small level of convenience they offer regardless of their performance compromise.

Even someone not intending changing from RFTs would be better obtaining a space saver and fitting it in the event of a puncture rather than sacrificially using their RFT which might otherwise have been repairable.

Edited by r11co on Thursday 9th October 17:30

I'd driven less than 5 miles on mine and the inside edge of the tyre wall had delaminated and split very badly!

[RicksAlfas]

One thing you don't notice until you compare them side by side is how heavy the RFTs are next to a normal tyre. I don't have any figures to hand but when I had the chance to compare them side by side the weight difference was in the area of "blimey", so substantially heavier than a "tad". Other ISO measurements are available.