Reliable, fun, cheap and 4WD

[Chris71]

Let's say for a second the tabloid's warnings of winter on a Game of Thrones scale are correct. And let's ignore the option of simply manning up with two-wheel drive and some decent tyres.

What's the best 4WD saloon or estate you could get for £3k?

This to me screams Impreza. I know something like an Octavia would probably be cheaper to run, but it doesn't have quite the same fun factor.

What are old Scoobies like as a semi-sensible daily proposition? Is there any particular model or generation that stands out? I'm confident any of the sportier models should tick the box for fun, but which is the best all-round transport?

Any other ideas apart from the Scooby? I presume a V6 4WD X-Type would cost nearly as much to run and I'm not sure I'm quite ready for Radio 4. A Legacy Spec B might be good as a more discrete option to the full on be-winged Impreza...

[crispyshark]

keep you eyes peeled for the carpool next week, there your answer will be!

If you can stretch up to 4k then there are some B5 S4 avants starting to appear.....very good car to tune up (if you're that way inclined).

Octavia is a great car for the money, especially when remapped, but it is FWD.

[jamieduff1981]

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

[s m]

An old Sierra?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=...

[crispyshark]

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

Can only speak for myself but generally I get between 225 and 300 miles out of my Scooby btw fills depending if local driving or motorway....gets better with octane booster added.

Parts, tyres etc are fairly cheap.

[underphil]

maybe slightly over budget, but Mazda 6 MPS

[jamieduff1981]

crispyshark said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

Can only speak for myself but generally I get between 225 and 300 miles out of my Scooby btw fills depending if local driving or motorway....gets better with octane booster added.

Parts, tyres etc are fairly cheap.

Sounds similar. The X-Type has a slightly smaller tank than the Mondeo to clear the propshaft so takes about £60 to fill, and returns around 300 miles to next fill up. Most consumables cost peanuts. Very different character of car to an Impreza though. The only thing they appear to have in common is AWD - even then it's not the same though. The X-Type's is intended to try to make the car feel RWD.

[luckystrike]

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

Do they really? I'm getting over 400 miles out of a tank on the Mondeo, and I was led to believe that the V6/4WD combo in X-types is far from the most efficient.

They're nice cars certainly but you'd need man maths for it to cost the same as a Mondeo to run.

[anonymous-user]

How important is it being a saloon/estate, because 'reliable, fun, cheap and 4WD' always equals a Toyota Celica GT4 if you can live without rear doors.

X Types just aren't fun. Imprezas are but if you're anything like me you'll do research into all of the models and discover that unless modified or a STI/Special edition that aren't really that exciting.

[cptsideways]

luckystrike said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

Do they really? I'm getting over 400 miles out of a tank on the Mondeo, and I was led to believe that the V6/4WD combo in X-types is far from the most efficient.

They're nice cars certainly but you'd need man maths for it to cost the same as a Mondeo to run.

They are Mondeo/Mazda6 underpinnings with all the same issues

[jamieduff1981]

luckystrike said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

Do they really? I'm getting over 400 miles out of a tank on the Mondeo, and I was led to believe that the V6/4WD combo in X-types is far from the most efficient.

They're nice cars certainly but you'd need man maths for it to cost the same as a Mondeo to run.

Yeah they're pretty cheap to run. I've had a 2.5 and a 3.0. They both cost the same to run. Both average high 20s MPG. Their extraurban consumption isn't good, but urban is surprisingly good particularly in manual gearbox flavour. Dampers aside which are much more expensive than Mondeo ones, brakes, tyres, suspension arms, bushes etc are all Mondeo priced - usually Mondeo parts actually. They need a service every 10k, have timing chains like the Ford V6 the engines are based on and only need spark plugs every 70k similar to the 60k intervals on the last Ford V6 I had. Very much Mondeo money in my book...

[andburg]

Forrester XT

[Chris71]

jamieduff1981 said:

I've no idea what Imprezas cost to run. AWD X-Types cost Mondeo money to run though. There's nothing I can do about your Radio 4 association prejudices however, so probably best stick with the Impreza.

I should add, that comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek. I used to own a Rover 75 estate complete with slush box.

JoshyS said:

How important is it being a saloon/estate, because 'reliable, fun, cheap and 4WD' always equals a Toyota Celica GT4 if you can live without rear doors.

X Types just aren't fun. Imprezas are but if you're anything like me you'll do research into all of the models and discover that unless modified or a STI/Special edition that aren't really that exciting.

Four doors would be advantageous, but to be honest I just meant a 4WD 'car' as opposed to an old Landie or something. I realise they can be fun to own, but not really what I'm after.

Not driven any of the base model Imprezas, but over the years I've tried most of the warm models and always come away with a smile on my face (I even liked the hatchback-era STi!) Had it in my head that a good GT4 would be more expensive to buy and run than an Impreza? Matthew Hayward's reports in Evo always sound entertaining.

Edited by Chris71 on Friday 10th October 16:30

[luckystrike]

cptsideways said:

They are Mondeo/Mazda6 underpinnings with all the same issues

That's an interesting statement, and completely irrelevant when it comes to running costs. A 1.6L Leon has the same 'underpinnings' as an R32 golf, they're not going to have the same running costs are they? sharing a similar body structure architecture with other cars tells you they'll be a similar size and not much else.

jamieduff1981 said:

Yeah they're pretty cheap to run. I've had a 2.5 and a 3.0. They both cost the same to run. Both average high 20s MPG. Their extraurban consumption isn't good, but urban is surprisingly good particularly in manual gearbox flavour. Dampers aside which are much more expensive than Mondeo ones, brakes, tyres, suspension arms, bushes etc are all Mondeo priced - usually Mondeo parts actually. They need a service every 10k, have timing chains like the Ford V6 the engines are based on and only need spark plugs every 70k similar to the 60k intervals on the last Ford V6 I had. Very much Mondeo money in my book...

That's quite encouraging to hear as far as town driving's concerned, which is probably the point you'd most likely see 4wd benefit in winter. I've got a 2L petrol mondeo which averages from 33mpg to 38 according to the computer depending on whether I'm commuting or taking a long trip, which looks like it roughly pans out given mileage and fuel use. Alas for me, that nigh-on 10mpg difference for extra-urban driving would be a bit too much to deal with.

[underphil]

cptsideways said:

They are Mondeo/Mazda6 underpinnings with all the same issues

Mazda 6 and the old US based Ford Fusion shared the same underpinnings, but not the Mondeo I thought

[spikeyhead]

I've driven an Imprezza Turbo in the snow. I hate that the ESP took me in whichever direction it wanted. It was on wide, lowish tread summer tyres, and below 2000rpm there's bugger all power. Potter up a hill at low revs, suddenly a wheel would lose some grip, the revs would rise, the turbo would kick in and you'd suddenly accelerate in a random direction. On a car with the ESP turned off that's quite fun, a dab of oppo and away you go. With ESP, a dab of oppo and the car does the opposite to what I want.

An FWD with a heavy engine and skinny tyres is far more capable in snow than an imprezza on wide summer tyres.

[TWPC]

Is a hatchback out of the question? If not, how about a Golf V6 4motion (it's a civilian VR6...)?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...

For fun, though, a Subaru's probably the way to go. How about this Forester XT still in its ambulance livery...?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/s...

[Fastdruid]

OTOH a Mazda 6 MPS in the snow was a right hoot. I was probably driving it *far* too fast for the conditions admittedly (not stupidly so but even 30mph with normal tyres on is probably far too fast on snow).

[IanMorewood]

A Legacy would be where I would chuck a grand if I wanted a cheap 4wd winter hack, sell it in the spring for what you pay for it.

[hamishg]

andburg said:

Forrester XT

Yes, sensible choice. Fairly quick, extremely reliable, practical, very good in the snow, half decent off road, perfectly sensible on it and rather comfy with arm rest and heated seats. Low 30s on the motorway and mid 25s around town though.