Greg Dyke & Grassroots Footy
Discussion
So Greg Dyke as come out and said English grassroots football is in crisis, well I could have told him that 15 years ago. He went on to say we have 14000 coaches most of which are paid a pittance at best or are unpaid. Well let me tell you Greg in Germany there are 40,000 coaches, and most are paid in excess of 35k a year..
When we thrashed Germany in 2002 it sent shockwaves through the German FA so much so the vowed to put there football to rights. Recent results speak for themselves. The French in the late 80s early 90s overhauled their football at grassroots level in eight years they won the World Cup.
The amount of money that is awash in the PL, I cannot believe the state our football is in . Dyke said 50m is needed to build pitches employ more coaches. 50 m is he joking it would not scratch the surface, it needs massive investment now and also someone who knows what they are doing. We need football clubs in villages ,towns, and inner cities with good facilities warm changing rooms great pitches decent floodlights,clubs where kids will want to go to and be proud off. There should be a levy from all the PL clubs and the Govenment should match that investment.
Look what happened when we had big investment in British Cycling, we are now the best in the world,and that only took 8 years. The talent is here in this country, it just needs to be nurtured in great facilities. And one last thing keep parents away from the touchline the damage they do to the kids is colossal .
When we thrashed Germany in 2002 it sent shockwaves through the German FA so much so the vowed to put there football to rights. Recent results speak for themselves. The French in the late 80s early 90s overhauled their football at grassroots level in eight years they won the World Cup.
The amount of money that is awash in the PL, I cannot believe the state our football is in . Dyke said 50m is needed to build pitches employ more coaches. 50 m is he joking it would not scratch the surface, it needs massive investment now and also someone who knows what they are doing. We need football clubs in villages ,towns, and inner cities with good facilities warm changing rooms great pitches decent floodlights,clubs where kids will want to go to and be proud off. There should be a levy from all the PL clubs and the Govenment should match that investment.
Look what happened when we had big investment in British Cycling, we are now the best in the world,and that only took 8 years. The talent is here in this country, it just needs to be nurtured in great facilities. And one last thing keep parents away from the touchline the damage they do to the kids is colossal .
hilly10 said:
So Greg Dyke as come out and said English grassroots football is in crisis, well I could have told him that 15 years ago. He went on to say we have 14000 coaches most of which are paid a pittance at best or are unpaid. Well let me tell you Greg in Germany there are 40,000 coaches, and most are paid in excess of 35k a year..
When we thrashed Germany in 2002 it sent shockwaves through the German FA so much so the vowed to put there football to rights. Recent results speak for themselves. The French in the late 80s early 90s overhauled their football at grassroots level in eight years they won the World Cup.
The amount of money that is awash in the PL, I cannot believe the state our football is in . Dyke said 50m is needed to build pitches employ more coaches. 50 m is he joking it would not scratch the surface, it needs massive investment now and also someone who knows what they are doing. We need football clubs in villages ,towns, and inner cities with good facilities warm changing rooms great pitches decent floodlights,clubs where kids will want to go to and be proud off. There should be a levy from all the PL clubs and the Govenment should match that investment.
Look what happened when we had big investment in British Cycling, we are now the best in the world,and that only took 8 years. The talent is here in this country, it just needs to be nurtured in great facilities. And one last thing keep parents away from the touchline the damage they do to the kids is colossal .
Where do you get your figures from? The FA's head of learning says we have 70,000 qualified coaches and I wonder where you get the salary of over £35,000 ?When we thrashed Germany in 2002 it sent shockwaves through the German FA so much so the vowed to put there football to rights. Recent results speak for themselves. The French in the late 80s early 90s overhauled their football at grassroots level in eight years they won the World Cup.
The amount of money that is awash in the PL, I cannot believe the state our football is in . Dyke said 50m is needed to build pitches employ more coaches. 50 m is he joking it would not scratch the surface, it needs massive investment now and also someone who knows what they are doing. We need football clubs in villages ,towns, and inner cities with good facilities warm changing rooms great pitches decent floodlights,clubs where kids will want to go to and be proud off. There should be a levy from all the PL clubs and the Govenment should match that investment.
Look what happened when we had big investment in British Cycling, we are now the best in the world,and that only took 8 years. The talent is here in this country, it just needs to be nurtured in great facilities. And one last thing keep parents away from the touchline the damage they do to the kids is colossal .
hilly10 said:
These facts and figures were taken from a article in the Mail on Sunday written a few months ago. The 35k is the salary for a professional coach in Germany
Do you have a link to the article? I'd be surprised if Germany have 40,000 professional football coaches.Most coaches are part time, it's a hobby you do that you enjoy. Yes there are people full time but the numbers you put forward need substantiating or we are just not on the same page.
Trying to find a floodlit pitch at a rate that Childrens football can pay for, is nigh on impossible. Recently a nearby school here, offered me there floodlit Astro for only £110 per hour.
That's a £1000 a month for the usage we need at the local U5's - U12's level. We just don't have that kind of money.
http://www.wsyl.org.uk/Level01/SYL%20Tables.htm
Here's a link to the West Surrey Youth leagues.
It's an example of real world grass roots football.
There are over 450 TEAMS ( some 5000 boys) playing every week of the season. My nephew plays for Twickenham Tigers, my brother coaches them, he's an IT consultant but has now got a coaching badge and CRB check.
Most of the teams are run like this.
They pay a ref £20 a game and play on Sunday mornings using parents transport to get to away games in Surrey they also have a training session once a week. The boys are seriously into it, many have dreams to okay at a higher level, the vast majority won't but it doesn't stop them.
The level of organisation and administration at this level ( 10 -16 year olds) really has to be seen to be believed.
All the teams have to wear full kit, all the boys shake hands before the game and applaud the winners after, there are cones around the pitch where the coach cannot stand outside.
Unless you saw it you wouldn't know it's going on but this is one set up in one area.
It's often quoted that kids have nowhere to play nowadays and they don't bother, well, this proves otherwise.
Brother gets no money for managing and coaching the team but he loves it, uploads the scores each week, talks to firms about sponsoring the shirts, the man of the match each week gets a trophy and £2 to depend in a local sweet shop.
This is all going on, every week, often under the radar.
Here's a link to the West Surrey Youth leagues.
It's an example of real world grass roots football.
There are over 450 TEAMS ( some 5000 boys) playing every week of the season. My nephew plays for Twickenham Tigers, my brother coaches them, he's an IT consultant but has now got a coaching badge and CRB check.
Most of the teams are run like this.
They pay a ref £20 a game and play on Sunday mornings using parents transport to get to away games in Surrey they also have a training session once a week. The boys are seriously into it, many have dreams to okay at a higher level, the vast majority won't but it doesn't stop them.
The level of organisation and administration at this level ( 10 -16 year olds) really has to be seen to be believed.
All the teams have to wear full kit, all the boys shake hands before the game and applaud the winners after, there are cones around the pitch where the coach cannot stand outside.
Unless you saw it you wouldn't know it's going on but this is one set up in one area.
It's often quoted that kids have nowhere to play nowadays and they don't bother, well, this proves otherwise.
Brother gets no money for managing and coaching the team but he loves it, uploads the scores each week, talks to firms about sponsoring the shirts, the man of the match each week gets a trophy and £2 to depend in a local sweet shop.
This is all going on, every week, often under the radar.
I do not have a link to the article. We have the mail on Sunday it was in the sport section a couple of months ago.
When the French set about changing their system at grassroots, villages and towns had superb facilities a training pitch changing rooms etc. I used to go down early evening to watch the local one to us. The kids very rarely played a competitive game that came later in there development. I used to see two or three coaches with kids of all ages one group would be ball skills trapping being totally comfortable receiving and passing the ball, another group were bending dead ball kicks around a hardboard cut out wall. No parents were allowed to attend. This all happened in the late 80s early 90s the ex Liverpool Manager Gerard Houlier was responsible for all that went on. in what was a dramatic turn around.
Unless we do what the French or Germans did we will never be any good. We have had one good team since 66 that could have won a WC OR EC one good team in 40 years pretty crap don't you think.
When the French set about changing their system at grassroots, villages and towns had superb facilities a training pitch changing rooms etc. I used to go down early evening to watch the local one to us. The kids very rarely played a competitive game that came later in there development. I used to see two or three coaches with kids of all ages one group would be ball skills trapping being totally comfortable receiving and passing the ball, another group were bending dead ball kicks around a hardboard cut out wall. No parents were allowed to attend. This all happened in the late 80s early 90s the ex Liverpool Manager Gerard Houlier was responsible for all that went on. in what was a dramatic turn around.
Unless we do what the French or Germans did we will never be any good. We have had one good team since 66 that could have won a WC OR EC one good team in 40 years pretty crap don't you think.
Actually the Grass pitches for matches are pretty reasonable, we pay around £2000 for the season to the village green, and some for another park we use, about £25 per match.
It is the lack of available floodlit astro for mid week training that kills us, we pay around £4000 a year for Astro.
2 hours a week.
However in all these setups, all the coaches are volunteers, and the admin you speak of, CRB checks, FA Respect agenda, ref co ordination, pitch marking, set up and take down, treasury, league registrations, photo id's and the million other tasks to make the club run are all voluntary. FA Level 1 Coaching badges (the minimum requirement) is a 35 hour commitment for any would be coach.
It is only thanks to some really dedicated and motivated people that we are able to put 200 kids out on a Saturday to enjoy playing sport.
I love hearing guys like Greg Dyke saying the FA needs to fix Grass Roots sport, but in reality they haven't got a clue about what it takes to get little johnny playing football. Plus lets face it, their agenda is to find a star, who plays for England, our agenda is too let the kids play a sport and have fun.
Small clubs like ours, even with deeply motivated coaches, can only be a feeder into better more professional setups, we get our players scouted fairly regularly by Fulham and Chelsea, and a few of our boys have gone on to training camps with them. We can't develop our top 1% players correctly since we just don't have the "competition" in our league fixtures. You need your very best players playing against similar level boys if they are going to develop.
hilly10 said:
I do not have a link to the article. We have the mail on Sunday it was in the sport section a couple of months ago.
When the French set about changing their system at grassroots, villages and towns had superb facilities a training pitch changing rooms etc. I used to go down early evening to watch the local one to us. The kids very rarely played a competitive game that came later in there development. I used to see two or three coaches with kids of all ages one group would be ball skills trapping being totally comfortable receiving and passing the ball, another group were bending dead ball kicks around a hardboard cut out wall. No parents were allowed to attend. This all happened in the late 80s early 90s the ex Liverpool Manager Gerard Houlier was responsible for all that went on. in what was a dramatic turn around.
Unless we do what the French or Germans did we will never be any good. We have had one good team since 66 that could have won a WC OR EC one good team in 40 years pretty crap don't you think.
Without seeing the article we shouldn't quote it but I think it would've said there are 40,000 qualified coaches in Germany and salaries of professional coaches can top £35,000. Those are two very different things. The average salary of those 40,000 won't be £35,000. Most will be volunteers or doing a few hours a week the same as here. When the French set about changing their system at grassroots, villages and towns had superb facilities a training pitch changing rooms etc. I used to go down early evening to watch the local one to us. The kids very rarely played a competitive game that came later in there development. I used to see two or three coaches with kids of all ages one group would be ball skills trapping being totally comfortable receiving and passing the ball, another group were bending dead ball kicks around a hardboard cut out wall. No parents were allowed to attend. This all happened in the late 80s early 90s the ex Liverpool Manager Gerard Houlier was responsible for all that went on. in what was a dramatic turn around.
Unless we do what the French or Germans did we will never be any good. We have had one good team since 66 that could have won a WC OR EC one good team in 40 years pretty crap don't you think.
t. That was his point in Germany they have 40000 professional coaches being paid.I was listening to Radio 5 a few months ago...I can't remember who but it had an ex-pro from the 70's on and a few other people that have clearly taken an interest in this. The ex-pro made an interesting point...apparently about ten years ago in response to a similar "football's in crisis" moment the FA decided the response was that we needed more coaches....the result was that they dumbed down coaching qualifications and the FA got there 20 or 30,000 coaches...most of whom were not very well qualified to coach. This apparently has now been understood to be a huge error so now coaching standards are higher but the system is still full of that influx of "not very good" coaches from a few years ago.
There needs to be some sort of 0.00005% levy on player salary or tickets.
that should to junior leagues.
My lad plays for a team at u14 level.
Its truly staggering what the managers have to do, to get a game on.
Were are trying to organise a trip to France for them next season, the planning and meetings thats needed are something like Operation overlord.
On a personal note though my lads club has everything,
floodlit 3g, function room/bar, two absolutely superb A1 pitches.
its just a shame we are bottom of the league having note won a game since last year :-(
that should to junior leagues.
My lad plays for a team at u14 level.
Its truly staggering what the managers have to do, to get a game on.
Were are trying to organise a trip to France for them next season, the planning and meetings thats needed are something like Operation overlord.
On a personal note though my lads club has everything,
floodlit 3g, function room/bar, two absolutely superb A1 pitches.
its just a shame we are bottom of the league having note won a game since last year :-(
Cheib said:
I was listening to Radio 5 a few months ago...I can't remember who but it had an ex-pro from the 70's on and a few other people that have clearly taken an interest in this. The ex-pro made an interesting point...apparently about ten years ago in response to a similar "football's in crisis" moment the FA decided the response was that we needed more coaches....the result was that they dumbed down coaching qualifications and the FA got there 20 or 30,000 coaches...most of whom were not very well qualified to coach. This apparently has now been understood to be a huge error so now coaching standards are higher but the system is still full of that influx of "not very good" coaches from a few years ago.
As one poster pointed out we have 70,000 coaches yes we may have but only 14,000 that know anything or are any good. Everything the FA do they try to do it on the cheap. They said they needed 12 million to finish St Georges in Burton on Trent. For gods sake its not even a good Premier League transfer fee. We will just languish on and nowt will change. speedyman said:
With the amount of money in english football I see no reason why the goverment should subsidise football. Football would gain by financing this themselves. The trouble is the greed within football is killing it.
The trouble is, top level football is a business, not a sport.Asking the top clubs to subsidise it is like asking Ford to subsidise my local carting track.
The comparison with British Cycling is apt in some ways, but not in many others.
British cycling became the best in the world by having a small group peaking more or less simultaneously every four years. A footballer needs to peak twice a week, for nine months of the year...11 months if there's a world cup / european championship. So the number of quality players needs to be much, much higher to keep the team at the required level.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but if we think it'll be as easy (and cheap) as getting to the top in cycling we need to think again.
My point with the cycling was if you give people the best facilities they will be proud of them and not only that but it helps them also and drives them to perform to the best of their abilities.
I think we should have at the very least fifteen academies across the country with first class facilities and coaches paid for in part by the Lottery the government a levy from the FA and Premier league clubs and people who know what they are doing. As said it need massive investment, but its the only way.
I think we should have at the very least fifteen academies across the country with first class facilities and coaches paid for in part by the Lottery the government a levy from the FA and Premier league clubs and people who know what they are doing. As said it need massive investment, but its the only way.
Edited by hilly10 on Monday 13th October 15:22
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