Internet Business Idea - what next?

[rottie102]

I've discovered a gap in the market

I did my research and it looks like there's nobody providing the service at the moment and potential is great for lifetime of income or massive buyout
It's all purely internet based, I will need a website, iPhone, Android and Windows phone apps.

The idea is very simple and probably easy to implement by anyone with enough funds/skills.

How would you proceed? I have a team of developers that worked for me before creating websites but they were all websites for existing businesses, nothing that they could steal the idea of.

I'm meeting with the owner of that IT company tomorrow. Although I will have a contract in place between me and the company, I guess I will need to make sure that none of the individual IT guys will make the use of it. I don't think they are in full employment at that company.
I was thinking whether it wouldn't be better and safer to actually employ few programmers, am I thinking correctly that good employment contract would protect me best from somebody stealing the idea?

The website/apps would be pretty complicated so definitely a lot work required.

I truly believe in it, enough to put my whole life's savings behind it but I'm worried that it might not be enough to promote it on a scale that would be required so might need a bank loan, how to approach a business manager in the bank to protect my idea again?

I would appreciate your help guys

[trickywoo]

rottie102 said:

Potential is great for lifetime of income or massive buyout

It's all purely internet based, I will need a website, iPhone, Android and Windows phone apps.

The idea is very simple and probably easy to implement by anyone with enough funds/skills.

I truly believe in it, enough to put my whole life's savings behind it.

The idea is very simple and easy to implement but you are happy putting your life savings into it and it'll provide a great lifetime of income?

Unless you can patent it I wouldn't recommend going OTT on an easy to implement very simple idea. Everyone will be onto it very quickly.

I think we'll need more details to comment properly. Is it a corporate service i.e. big individual pieces of work or is it a consumer service i.e. lots of small pieces of work / service provision? Is it a 'new' google or facebook?

[Martin4x4]

1) Break down the solution and have the pieces developed independently.

2) Make the developers partners, give them a long term interest in the success of the project.

3) Recognise that truly innovative solutions a very rare. The number of times I've heard this and the person then goes on to say. "It like a new versions of Google/Facebook/Twitter but for Cats/Comediennes/Powerfully Built Company Directors". If when you describe it in reference to any existing Business/Service it is not innovative.

4) Recognise that lay people make very poor judges of complexity in computer systems.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 11th October 18:17

[rottie102]

Thanks guys

So is NDA as in "I will not tell anyone about the business idea I will be told about or do anything towards developing it myself, otherwise I agree to pay £1 trillion pounds to XYZ" actually an efficient and legally binding way of protecting myself?

it's actually tested in US and works perfectly well there, I'm just really surprised nobody has thought of it here. Market and infrastructure is very much the same.

[rottie102]

Martin4x4 said:

1) Break down the solution and have the pieces developed independently.

2) Make the developers partners, give them a long term interest in the success of the project.

3) Recognise that truly innovative solutions a very rare. The number of times I've heard this and the person then goes on to say. "It like a new versions of Google/Facebook/Twitter but for Cats/Comediennes/Powerfully Built Company Directors". If when you describe it in reference to any existing Business/Service it is not innovative.

4) Recognise that lay people make very poor judges of complexity in computer systems.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 11th October 18:17

1) I can't even think of how it could work since as I thought - the idea is simple. That would just introduce more people being involved.
2) I was thinking about it, but I don't see it being worth it if it will be as successful as I believe it can be and since I do have the capital to pay them as normal contractors.
3) this one is purely business, working very successfully in similar industries and in THIS PARTICULAR ONE in different countries, just not in the UK yet.
4) What do you mean by that?

[Martin4x4]

rottie102 said:

Martin4x4 said:

1) Break down the solution and have the pieces developed independently.

2) Make the developers partners, give them a long term interest in the success of the project.

3) Recognise that truly innovative solutions a very rare. The number of times I've heard this and the person then goes on to say. "It like a new versions of Google/Facebook/Twitter but for Cats/Comediennes/Powerfully Built Company Directors". If when you describe it in reference to any existing Business/Service it is not innovative.

4) Recognise that lay people make very poor judges of complexity in computer systems.

1) I can't even think of how it could work since as I thought - the idea is simple. That would just introduce more people being involved.
2) I was thinking about it, but I don't see it being worth it if it will be as successful as I believe it can be and since I do have the capital to pay them as normal contractors.
3) this one is purely business, working very successfully in similar industries and in THIS PARTICULAR ONE in different countries, just not in the UK yet.
4) What do you mean by that?

1) Well, you've mentioned a server and phone apps that is one division, another might be the data the system need to carry out it's job. The server might be broken down into a it's database and front end. The App might be developed without the developer really knowing the meaning of the data that is presented. Lets assume it presents an address that fits some criteria keep the meaning of those criteria under wraps. Have the server deliver address along with a label from the data, not hard coded into the App.

4) You've said it is simple, but a developer might not agree. I've done software development for over 20 years and regularly hear this. People say they just want this simple thing, but without actually knowing how to do it, how it would work in software it not some they are really conclude. It is very rarely as simple as they presume. Developers even have a saying about it. Projects have unknowns and there are unknowns about the unknowns. There things we don't even known we don't know.

AIH NDA are used in this country, I've had to sign a few over the years.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 11th October 19:41

[HenryJM]

Obviously I don't know you, or your skills. Maybe you know much of what I am about to say.

But I've been in IT for over 30 years, first as an employee then starting a business, now owning that and interests in others. Amongst it all we have produced a lot of web software and still do, deployed currently in four countries.

So I have an idea what it is all about. Firstly I don't believe that you can successfully have this developed in the way you say. What you imply is that it is the software that is a key part of the product, I don't know what it does for you, but it doesn't seem to be the product selling through the software so much as the software itself that delivers.

There's a lot of reasons that probably won't work being created by contractors/suppliers. As it builds and evolves the requirements will change, as it happens the infrastructure will change. A decent web based system needs to change all the time. You mention browser, iPhones, Android etc. - are you looking for desktop browser but something different on the mobile? Apps or responsive design within the same site, or are you expecting to be developing websites that adapt to new functions depending on the device? The point being that this stuff changes all the time, responsive was great last week, today - hmmm - maybe not so, then the high grade infrastructure today could be rubbish tomorrow as new holes get discovered, it needs to be discovered and fixed immediately, not in some weeks time.

But more than that the tech won't be that closed, no matter what the developers are restricted under a fair amount of source code gets delivered to the browser anyway - OK, not all, but you aren't in the same world of protection by retaining source code as you do in other environments.

However most of all makes it sound that it is fairly easy for big companies to deploy, so if you enter the market and show that there is a market you potentially lose as the big guys get in there and can be faster and better in deployment and adaptability, and if you can't create a market you lose again.

You need to know and do things that others can't do, have a USP, a special attribute that is hard to reproduce. With your own skills on this you may stand a change, but I'm struggling how it will work without. I've seen a number of people try to do this sort of thing, all of them are poorer today than they would have been if they hadn't started.

I hope I'm wrong, you are wise enough to not give enough information to accurately judge, but I don't see that route of deploying that as working.

[rottie102]

Martin4x4 said:

1) Well, you've mentioned a server and phone apps that is one division, another might be the data the system need to carry out it's job. The server might be broken down into a it's database and front end. The App might be developed without the developer really knowing the meaning of the data that is presented. Lets assume it presents an address that fits some criteria keep the meaning of those criteria under wraps. Have the server deliver address along with a label from the data, not hard coded into the App.

4) You've said it is simple, but a developer might not agree. I've done software development for over 20 years and regularly hear this. People say they just want this simple thing, but without actually knowing how to do it, how it would work in software it not some they are really conclude. It is very rarely as simple as they presume. Developers even have a saying about it. Projects have unknowns and there are unknowns about the unknowns. There things we don't even known we don't know.

AIH NDA are used in this country, I've had to sign a few over the years.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 11th October 19:41

I said the core IDEA is simple "The website/apps would be pretty complicated so definitely a lot work required." It didn't even cross my mind that it would be quick and easy to implement, hence my idea of actually hiring people because it should work out much cheaper paying their hourly rates than company's rates. Plus it's much easier to control when I would have them all together in one place at the same time.

As for your first point, I know nowhere near enough IT to make it work, plus again - I would have to share THE WHAT, there's no other way about it and people with HOW could do it without me.

[rottie102]

HenryJM said:

However most of all makes it sound that it is fairly easy for big companies to deploy, so if you enter the market and show that there is a market you potentially lose as the big guys get in there and can be faster and better in deployment and adaptability, and if you can't create a market you lose again.

You need to know and do things that others can't do, have a USP, a special attribute that is hard to reproduce.

That's exactly the case - there are many companies doing SIMILAR things but not this particular one. That's my USP. Although I see that I would always have to be one step ahead before and after they copy it. But as I said - the possibility of a buyout by bigger guys is just as attractive as running it long-term.

Although my IT skills are not something to be proud of, I have a fair amount of internet knowledge and I'm a great salesman, being able to see people's needs even if others can't. My existing business is the most successful within the industry in the UK so I'm not worried about the ideas.

[jammy_basturd]

Don't bother with NDAs, they are largely useless:
1) If you're talking to people that are useful then they've probably already spoke to other people regarding similar ideas. Last year I have a friend who spoke to at least 5 different parties regarding very similar tech projects in the education sector - three of whom asked him to sign NDAs.
2) If they are free to speak to you under an NDA - are they really that helpful?
3) Most people sign NDAs with little regard to what they represent.
4) If your idea really is that simple and easy to implement/replicate then an NDA or patent won't help you anyway. As soon as you release you'll have two problems - either the idea will flop in which case no one will care or, the idea will be a success in which case the fact that it's easily replicable means you'll have a number of copy cats that you'll be powerless to stop.


Also, you don't need to worry about how to build it yet. You still need to find out if you SHOULD build it. Read the Lean Startup book by Eric Ries. Start by working out how to market the idea. Make a website for your app. Advertise the website, ask people who land on the website to download or pay for the app. Measure the conversion rate. This data will tell you whether or not you should bother actually spending your life savings on paying people to build this thing for you. The great way about doing it this way is that once you're in beta stage or live, you'll have a captive audience of people ready to use your app.

[cashmax]

I agree with the above. NDA is a complete, un enforceable waste of time.

Amusing that people are telling you it can't work already when they don't have the faintest idea what it is.

Assuming you need -

1) Capital investment

2) Technical due diligence

You will need to trust someone sooner or later on this. The capital required is likely to be easy to raise in todays market, especially if you are willing to put everything you have into it (A VC's dream)

Personally, I would go to a well respected web VC operation. They deal with the dilemmas you have on a daily basis. They DON'T steel ideas, its not very good for business.

[daemon]

cashmax said:

Amusing that people are telling you it can't work already when they don't have the faintest idea what it is.

Fair enough, but by the O/P's own admission "easy to implement by anyone with enough funds/skills", and hes planning on putting his entire life savings into it?

The odds of coming up with such a brilliant idea that simply needs a website and an app set up and you're on your way to fame and fortune is incredibly slim. I would say buy a lottery ticket to double your chances.

Also, if its that good a money making idea, how come noone else is doing it? Whats different about the states than here?

And if he does get it off the ground, whats to stop copycats with more money / a better tweak on the idea just copying it?

And also, whilst its nice to think an exit strategy might be to be "bought out by one of the big boys", chances are they'll just thweak what they're doing to replicate what you're doing and put you out of business.

I genuinely wish the O/P all the best, and maybe he has just discovered the goose that lays the golden egg. Fair play if he has. I would love him to come back in a years time and tell us its a roaring success.

[Asterix]

Are you Simon Edhouse?

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

[Hoofy]

You say it's easy to recreate - I think the problem is that within minutes of tweeting that it's live, someone somewhere with the knowhow will begin to build a rival. A month later, you have a problem and end up having to throw lots of money into marketing it to make it more popular than the rival site.

One thing worth considering is that while you think it's a great idea, even if you post the details on PH, most people don't have the time or skillset to create a rival, anyway. It's not like we're all sitting here doing nothing and waiting for someone to post the next big thing.

[-DeaDLocK-]

I am web developer.

We get people coming to us frequently with the "next big thing" and get all concerned about us absconding with the idea or telling the world about it. Here's some truths, straight from the horses' mouth:

1) We respect your concerns and know where you are coming from
2) We have zero interest in stealing your idea
3) We just want to get paid an honest wage for honest work

You can make us sign an NDA if you want, but honestly, don't waste your time.

The other option (as indicated above) is to find a developer who is willing to exchange his services for equity. If a decent and experienced developer (not just technically, but commercially) says yes, then that's an added credibility boost for your project.

I've turned down partnership offers for about ten projects now. Said yes to two. Was I ever interested in stealing anybody's idea? Nope.

And trust me, your idea is not that great. I have no idea what it is, but alongside the thousands of folks who embark on tech startups, odds are your idea is not great and you will fail.

Ideas are thoroughly overrated and are worth zip. The quality of your team, size of your coffers and absolute balls-out dedication to your cause is what will see things through. Maybe.

[jammy_basturd]

-DeaDLocK- said:

Ideas are thoroughly overrated and are worth zip. The quality of your team, size of your coffers and absolute balls-out dedication to your cause is what will see things through. Maybe.

Very good point.

[rottie102]

jammy_basturd said:

Very good point.

I definitely take it on board and it's always great to have somebody playing devil's advocate. I will think very hard and do my homework before going ahead.
Thanks everyone!

[Altrezia]

I agree with most of the things that have been said so far - we've also been asked to do a lot of equity jobs over the last few years, and rarely say yes. We did say yes to one, though, and it's going fairly well.

We'd be happy to chat over the project, though? Always happy to help a PHer even if it's just a quick phone call

[jammy_basturd]

rottie102 said:

jammy_basturd said:

Very good point.

I definitely take it on board and it's always great to have somebody playing devil's advocate. I will think very hard and do my homework before going ahead.
Thanks everyone!

Definitely look at the Lean Startup, it completely switches the process of product development, from being product driven to being customer driven and could help you save a lot of money in the long run.

[fellatthefirst]

NDA's are not worth the paper they are written on. And if you want to outsource your development or employ your own developers then you will need very deep pockets.

Speaking from someone who has first hand experience of it...