The DVLA and their ability to misplace documents...
Discussion
Hi all,
I am hoping someone will be able to help me. I'm sure that this has been done to death (which means there will be some good answers/advice).
Brief background;
Back in April of this year, I sold a car via E-bay - all was fine - sent the V5 recorded delivery (No longer have the receipt/tracking number for this unfortunately) and thought that was that. Just before selling the car, I had marked it as SORN as it was off the road. The chap I sold the car too was planning on fixing it and getting it back on the road.
On the Friday just gone, I received a Tax Reminder through the post from the DVLA - this suggests to me that they lost the V5 and have not processed the Change of Owner.
I've checked on the DVLA website, and the car is back on the road - as it has been taxed and has an MOT until next year - both of these must have been completed by the new owner.
On the Tax Reminder, it states that if I no longer own the car and do not have the V5 I can write to the DVLA with the new owners details (full name and address) and the date of sale and they will process the change of owner.
Now my issue is, I do not have the new owner's details - I have sent a text message to the number they had when the purchased a car (with no reply) and sent a message through e-bay explaining the situation and asking for the new owner to get back to me but have also not received a reply from this.
I'm going to phone the numbers I have for the new owner tomorrow if I don't get a reply via e-bay.
Now what I'm hoping you can help me with;
If the worst happens and I cannot get in contact with the new owner, and therefore cannot gain their details - what on earth do I do?
I understand that by sending the V5 to the DVLA I have completed my legal obligation (please correct me if I am incorrect), but how do I confirm that I no longer own this vehicle if I cannot provide the details of the new owner?
I obviously do not wish to be the registered keep for a vehicle I do not own, and have not owned for the best part of 6 months - what precautions can I take to protect my self?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Milk
I am hoping someone will be able to help me. I'm sure that this has been done to death (which means there will be some good answers/advice).
Brief background;
Back in April of this year, I sold a car via E-bay - all was fine - sent the V5 recorded delivery (No longer have the receipt/tracking number for this unfortunately) and thought that was that. Just before selling the car, I had marked it as SORN as it was off the road. The chap I sold the car too was planning on fixing it and getting it back on the road.
On the Friday just gone, I received a Tax Reminder through the post from the DVLA - this suggests to me that they lost the V5 and have not processed the Change of Owner.
I've checked on the DVLA website, and the car is back on the road - as it has been taxed and has an MOT until next year - both of these must have been completed by the new owner.
On the Tax Reminder, it states that if I no longer own the car and do not have the V5 I can write to the DVLA with the new owners details (full name and address) and the date of sale and they will process the change of owner.
Now my issue is, I do not have the new owner's details - I have sent a text message to the number they had when the purchased a car (with no reply) and sent a message through e-bay explaining the situation and asking for the new owner to get back to me but have also not received a reply from this.
I'm going to phone the numbers I have for the new owner tomorrow if I don't get a reply via e-bay.
Now what I'm hoping you can help me with;
If the worst happens and I cannot get in contact with the new owner, and therefore cannot gain their details - what on earth do I do?
I understand that by sending the V5 to the DVLA I have completed my legal obligation (please correct me if I am incorrect), but how do I confirm that I no longer own this vehicle if I cannot provide the details of the new owner?
I obviously do not wish to be the registered keep for a vehicle I do not own, and have not owned for the best part of 6 months - what precautions can I take to protect my self?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Milk
Registered Keeper: name on V5. Owner is another entity. If you have records of the transaction of the sale then that in conjunction with the change of V5 details will support your claim you are no longer the owner or registered keeper.
Show the DVLA you have attempted all reasonable methods to gather the info required and stick to your guns. Also you are right in that your legal obligation has been met. Interpretation Act i believe covers it.
I recently had an issue where they lost my V5 for 5 months and were going to take me to court for failing to insure a car I 'd sold back in Feb. Present your evidence and state your innocence at every opportunity. They will bluster and make threats but ultimately if you have done everything that can be reasonay expected in the circumstances, you don't need to worry.
Show the DVLA you have attempted all reasonable methods to gather the info required and stick to your guns. Also you are right in that your legal obligation has been met. Interpretation Act i believe covers it.
I recently had an issue where they lost my V5 for 5 months and were going to take me to court for failing to insure a car I 'd sold back in Feb. Present your evidence and state your innocence at every opportunity. They will bluster and make threats but ultimately if you have done everything that can be reasonay expected in the circumstances, you don't need to worry.
The complication for the OP is not having the buyer's details. I assume from that he didn't photocopy the V5C (whereon the new RK details would be recorded) before sending it to Swansea. I am amazed by how many people fail to take this elementary precaution when dealing with the DVLA. Such lack of belt and braces is an invitation to them to pull your trousers down. Mislaying/losing the RD receipt doesn't help either!
The OP has three choices.
As the vehicle is taxed, ignore the reminder and keep his head down. The problem with that is if he is still showing as the RK he's also in the firing line for any unpaid parking/bus lane contraventions and speeding tickets racked up by someone he doesn't know.
Respond with as much information as he can muster and see what happens. If he can't obtain the buyer's details it just adds another layer of grief. He can't provide them with information he doesn't possess and will struggle to obtain.
Write back to inform them that he is no longer the RK and the V5C was sent to Swansea in April. Obligation fulfilled. Ball in their court to find out where they have mislaid it (they don't know that he sent it by RD or that he doesn't have the PO receipt).
I'm thinking that maybe the new owner only taxed it for six months (May to October) which would explain the reminder coming through now (DVLA Vehicle Check will confirm this). Hopefully he will get a response to his call/text to the buyer. If I'm right about the renewal date, he will need the 16 digit number on the V11 if he wants to retax online or by phone. It's The OP's leverage to get the details he needs if he is going to write to the DVLA.
The other question is does the buyer have a V5C in his name? If he had to apply for one (because he didn't get one automatically by virtue of the OP sending his V5C to Swansea) then you would think the DVLA ought to be able to cross reference the VRM against the existing record showing him as the RK. If their system doesn't flag this and generate a notification asking if he objects (in case his V5C is stolen) then it's not fit for purpose.
The OP has three choices.
As the vehicle is taxed, ignore the reminder and keep his head down. The problem with that is if he is still showing as the RK he's also in the firing line for any unpaid parking/bus lane contraventions and speeding tickets racked up by someone he doesn't know.
Respond with as much information as he can muster and see what happens. If he can't obtain the buyer's details it just adds another layer of grief. He can't provide them with information he doesn't possess and will struggle to obtain.
Write back to inform them that he is no longer the RK and the V5C was sent to Swansea in April. Obligation fulfilled. Ball in their court to find out where they have mislaid it (they don't know that he sent it by RD or that he doesn't have the PO receipt).
I'm thinking that maybe the new owner only taxed it for six months (May to October) which would explain the reminder coming through now (DVLA Vehicle Check will confirm this). Hopefully he will get a response to his call/text to the buyer. If I'm right about the renewal date, he will need the 16 digit number on the V11 if he wants to retax online or by phone. It's The OP's leverage to get the details he needs if he is going to write to the DVLA.
The other question is does the buyer have a V5C in his name? If he had to apply for one (because he didn't get one automatically by virtue of the OP sending his V5C to Swansea) then you would think the DVLA ought to be able to cross reference the VRM against the existing record showing him as the RK. If their system doesn't flag this and generate a notification asking if he objects (in case his V5C is stolen) then it's not fit for purpose.
Edited by Red Devil on Sunday 12th October 23:21
My Mrs is currently going through this. We sold her S3 some months ago now. We sent off the V5, heard nothing. Got a letter from the DVLA about the tax.
Wrote to them again, told them it was sold and again provided the new owner's details after trawling through old texts, again heard nothing.
Now we've had a letter about the car being seen being used untaxed recently. Seriously, what is wrong with these people?
We no longer have the buyer's details! It's seriously frustrating.
Wrote to them again, told them it was sold and again provided the new owner's details after trawling through old texts, again heard nothing.
Now we've had a letter about the car being seen being used untaxed recently. Seriously, what is wrong with these people?
We no longer have the buyer's details! It's seriously frustrating.
One more tip when dealing with the DVLA, never ever SORN your vehicle by post because it's quite astonishing how many SORN documents have actually been 'lost' in the post by the DVLA since this SORN declaration was introduced. Following the money reveals that registered owners are then fined for not submitting SORN document as legally required. How very convenient.
Whenever possible SORN online via the DVLA website at www.gov.uk/vehicletax and remember to print a copy of the acknowledgement, or take a screenshot just in case they misplace your application...!
Whenever possible SORN online via the DVLA website at www.gov.uk/vehicletax and remember to print a copy of the acknowledgement, or take a screenshot just in case they misplace your application...!
TroubledSoul said:
Wrote to them again, told them it was sold and again provided the new owner's details after trawling through old texts, again heard nothing.
[/b]We no longer have the buyer's details![/b] It's seriously frustrating.
Did you not keep a copy of the letter? I keep copies of correspondence and every relevant document to do with the DVLA for as long as it takes. I have a copy of every Driving Licence it has issued to me. Just in case they screw up my entitlements... [/b]We no longer have the buyer's details![/b] It's seriously frustrating.
Firstly, thanks all for the replies. As I now know I have completed my legal obligation, I am feeling less panicked.
I will also be keeping copies of any further documents sent to the DVLA.
I SORNED the car online, so had automatic confirmation.
I will update the the thread again once I have tried calling the new owner today.
Thanks again.
I will also be keeping copies of any further documents sent to the DVLA.
I SORNED the car online, so had automatic confirmation.
I will update the the thread again once I have tried calling the new owner today.
Thanks again.
I Am Milk said:
Firstly, thanks all for the replies. As I now know I have completed my legal obligation, I am feeling less panicked.
I will also be keeping copies of any further documents sent to the DVLA.
I SORNED the car online, so had automatic confirmation.
I will update the the thread again once I have tried calling the new owner today.
Thanks again.
I would write to the DVLA with something along the lines of.I will also be keeping copies of any further documents sent to the DVLA.
I SORNED the car online, so had automatic confirmation.
I will update the the thread again once I have tried calling the new owner today.
Thanks again.
I have completed my legal obligations to you in full by sending the V5 using first class post. As the vehicle has now been taxed by the new owner it follows that you must have their details and this correspondence crossed in the post.
Please update your records with the correct information that is now in your possession. I am neither the lawful owner nor registered keeper and have not been since my notification dated xx/xx/xxxx
Negative Creep said:
Breadvan72 said:
People say that the DVLA is crap, but it processes millions of transactions annually. It would be surprising if it didn't cock up a few.
Problem is that it's the general publc who get fined or prosecuted for said errorsBreadvan72 said:
Negative Creep said:
Breadvan72 said:
People say that the DVLA is crap, but it processes millions of transactions annually. It would be surprising if it didn't cock up a few.
Problem is that it's the general publc who get fined or prosecuted for said errorsNumerous lost motorcycle entitlements meant the DVLA had to change their procedures.
Negative Creep said:
Breadvan72 said:
People say that the DVLA is crap, but it processes millions of transactions annually. It would be surprising if it didn't cock up a few.
Problem is that it's the general publc who get fined or prosecuted for said errorsA under a FOI request a few years ago, the DVLA stated that nearly a third of the records are incorrect.
Or rather they said that 66% were correct. Either way, that means nearly 15 million are wrong in some respect.
WinstonWolf said:
I would write to the DVLA with something along the lines of.
I have completed my legal obligations to you in full by sending the V5 using first class post. As the vehicle has now been taxed by the new owner it follows that you must have their details and this correspondence crossed in the post.
The new owner could have used the new keeper slip to tax it when he bought it, The dvla wont know who taxed it, as far as they're concerned it was the OP.I have completed my legal obligations to you in full by sending the V5 using first class post. As the vehicle has now been taxed by the new owner it follows that you must have their details and this correspondence crossed in the post.
Breadvan72 said:
Negative Creep said:
Breadvan72 said:
People say that the DVLA is crap, but it processes millions of transactions annually. It would be surprising if it didn't cock up a few.
Problem is that it's the general publc who get fined or prosecuted for said errorsGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff