Nazi Megastructures - More 4 9pm - Me 262 design and build
Discussion
The Germans used many disused mines to move the assembly of all sorts of stuff. A lot of it was conducted under the orders of Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Production. It wasn't just 262s that were assembled in these underground factories, but also the He162 Volksjager and the V2 rocket.
Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
Eric Mc said:
You could argue that the Nazi's love of the newest technology did them no favours whatsoever. Their deluded assumption that some new wonder weapon would reverse their fortunes helped ensure that they were utterly crushed by the Allies.
Yes, but with US+GB on the west and Russia on the east it was only going to end one way. Barbarossa was the fatal move. And so I guess if you know you can't win conventionally, you clutch at straws instead.Eric Mc said:
You could argue that the Nazi's love of the newest technology did them no favours whatsoever. Their deluded assumption that some new wonder weapon would reverse their fortunes helped ensure that they were utterly crushed by the Allies.
Then again if they'd have persisted with their research into fission weapons, that assumption might have been anything but deluded.dr_gn said:
Eric Mc said:
You could argue that the Nazi's love of the newest technology did them no favours whatsoever. Their deluded assumption that some new wonder weapon would reverse their fortunes helped ensure that they were utterly crushed by the Allies.
Then again if they'd have persisted with their research into fission weapons, that assumption might have been anything but deluded.They obviously just didn't understand the true power of fission weapons - perhaps because a lot of the basic science had been carried out by Jewish scientists. And that was enough to put the Nazis off (luckily for us).
The Germans could have won the war in Europe quite quickly. After September 1940 the invasion of Britain was off, the French where destroyed the Americans were indifferent and the Germans had secured direct access to the north Atlantic plus lots of valuable natural resources. They could at this point sued for peace and given back significant chunks of Western Europe and been well ahead.
With no western front a blitz into Russia in 1941 could have been even more successful than it was, imagine 5million troops plus 90% of the Luftwaffe thrown at the under equipped and poorly led Russian army.
With no western front a blitz into Russia in 1941 could have been even more successful than it was, imagine 5million troops plus 90% of the Luftwaffe thrown at the under equipped and poorly led Russian army.
Eric Mc said:
They obviously just didn't understand the true power of fission weapons - perhaps because a lot of the basic science had been carried out by Jewish scientists. And that was enough to put the Nazis off (luckily for us).
In 1938-9 the Germans were thinking of a fairly short conflict, certainly not six years. That's why they didn't pursue heavy bombers or aircraft carriers (though the latter would have been easy meat for a largely landlocked country). They also blew their chances of getting the atom bomb by deporting or bumping off many scientists. Just like Stalin, dictators fear too much science.IanMorewood said:
The Germans could have won the war in Europe quite quickly. After September 1940 the invasion of Britain was off, the French where destroyed the Americans were indifferent and the Germans had secured direct access to the north Atlantic plus lots of valuable natural resources. They could at this point sued for peace and given back significant chunks of Western Europe and been well ahead
The invasion of Britain may have been off, but we didn't know that at the time, and Churchill had vowed to keep fighting. The Allies' later demand for unconditional surrender prevented any earlier peace. And so with an unstoppable conflict in the West, the only place to stop was to leave Russia alone. But I hear that Stalin was watching the opponents weaken themselves and then invade - just like he did at Warsaw. Smart cookie, always one step ahead.Eric Mc said:
The Germans used many disused mines to move the assembly of all sorts of stuff. A lot of it was conducted under the orders of Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Production. It wasn't just 262s that were assembled in these underground factories, but also the He162 Volksjager and the V2 rocket.
Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
I wonder, did slave workers ever sabotage the aircraft they were working on? It seems to be a popular view, but I'm not sure there's a lot of hard evidence. Compounded by the fact that an increasingly paranoid leadership was wont to scream 'sabotage' at each and every delay and hold-up in the development programme.Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
Halmyre said:
Eric Mc said:
The Germans used many disused mines to move the assembly of all sorts of stuff. A lot of it was conducted under the orders of Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Production. It wasn't just 262s that were assembled in these underground factories, but also the He162 Volksjager and the V2 rocket.
Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
I wonder, did slave workers ever sabotage the aircraft they were working on? It seems to be a popular view, but I'm not sure there's a lot of hard evidence. Compounded by the fact that an increasingly paranoid leadership was wont to scream 'sabotage' at each and every delay and hold-up in the development programme.Conditions in the factories were murderous, literally, and thousands of slave labourers died. Indeed, far more people died making these weapons than were killed by them.
There definitely was some - although anyone found guilty of such activity would be summarily executed - so that must have prevented a lot.
I have heard a story of an American bomber being hit by cannon shells which failed to explode. After the aircraft landed, a number of the unexploded shells were removed and each was found to contain a rolled up piece of paper which said "This is all we can do".
Obviously, these notes had been inserted into the shells instead of explosive.
I have heard a story of an American bomber being hit by cannon shells which failed to explode. After the aircraft landed, a number of the unexploded shells were removed and each was found to contain a rolled up piece of paper which said "This is all we can do".
Obviously, these notes had been inserted into the shells instead of explosive.
Eric Mc said:
There definitely was some - although anyone found guilty of such activity would be summarily executed - so that must have prevented a lot.
I have heard a story of an American bomber being hit by cannon shells which failed to explode. After the aircraft landed, a number of the unexploded shells were removed and each was found to contain a rolled up piece of paper which said "This is all we can do".
Obviously, these notes had been inserted into the shells instead of explosive.
I find that immensely moving. That slave workers in Nazi munitions factories could be so brave as to continue their struggle in this way puts a massive lump in my throat. Do you have a link to the story Eric? I would love to read it in full. I have heard a story of an American bomber being hit by cannon shells which failed to explode. After the aircraft landed, a number of the unexploded shells were removed and each was found to contain a rolled up piece of paper which said "This is all we can do".
Obviously, these notes had been inserted into the shells instead of explosive.
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