Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 (Nordic compound) Winter Tyres
Discussion
I’ve used a number of winter tyres over the years on my performance BMW’s, with varying levels of success. I’ve used the following tyres on the following cars in the past, with the results listed.
1st Set - Vredestein Wintrac Extreme – BMW E46 M3 – Snow – Very Good, Ice – Good, Wet/Cold Roads – Very Good, Dry Handling – Very Good.
2nd Set - Pirelli Sottozero - BMW E46 M3 – Snow – Average, Ice – Average, Wet/Cold Roads – Very Good, Dry Handling – Excellent.
3rd Set - Continental WinterContact TS 830P SSR 205/50 R17 89H* (Runflat) – BMW M135i - Snow – Average, Ice – Average, Wet/Cold Roads – Good, Dry Handling – Acceptable. (Current OEM BMW Winter Tyre)
Whilst I’m a complete winter tyre convert, and I would recommend anyone who needs to use their car daily throughout the winter to purchase a set of winter tyres, I have also been stuck or found myself having difficulty finding traction, despite these winter tyres, in a few situations.
I think it’s worth noting that in addition to driving throughout the winter in North East Scotland on normal roads, commuting, car parks etc. I also like to travel up to the Highlands, through the glens, up and down steep hills, farm tracks, visit the Glenshee and Lecht ski-resorts etc. I like to be able to go EVERYWHERE and the occasions that I’ve found myself having problems due to lack of traction have been variable, i.e. sometimes it’s at the bottom of a steep hill and I’ve struggled to get going, but sometimes it’s been on the flat and it just seems to be a problem patch of ice under the snow etc. Although the winter tyres make an amazing difference, they do not make you invincible and enable you to drive on all roads in all circumstances. I’m an experienced driver with many miles under my belt in a variety of different cars, but despite this, if the tyre is struggling for grip, there’s only so much you can do to overcome that using driving style etc. I have occasionally been sitting parked in traffic on a particularly icy steep road and felt the car begin to creep/slide on the ice.
After trying the tyres above and reading many reviews etc., I’m interested in getting the very best possible winter tyre that I can. From what I’ve read, Nordic (Scandinavian Europe & Canada / North America) tyres are different from what we are normally supplied with in the UK, which are called “European” / Performance / All-Season winters, depending on who is describing them. The biggest difference I can see is that the ‘Nordic’ winter tyres perform a LOT better on snow and ice, but there is some trade off for handling and feel / speed ratings during wet or dry winter driving. For someone who lives in London or somewhere similar, or indeed the vast majority of the UK, the main winter conditions they are likely to face would be mostly cold wet / dry / frosty roads, so I can see the appeal of “European” performance winter tyres. However, when you are stuck on a particularly slippery section of road leading to a Highland ski resort or similar, you really want the maximum amount of winter performance on snow and ice!! Is it worth giving up some wet/dry grip and handling most of the winter, for increased performance in the couple of weeks we have snow?
My question is, I’m thinking about replacing the tyres on my BMW M135i with either Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 205/50 R17 93R XL Nordic compound or Continental WinterContact TS 850P 205/50 R17 93H XL(Updated non-Run-Flat version of the TS 830 P OEM winter package I have now). Does anyone have any experience of using Nordic winter tyres in Scotland, in particular the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 205/50 R17 93R XL, or does anyone have any views or advice they could share?
Which tyres do people think I should choose for my circumstances?
1st Set - Vredestein Wintrac Extreme – BMW E46 M3 – Snow – Very Good, Ice – Good, Wet/Cold Roads – Very Good, Dry Handling – Very Good.
2nd Set - Pirelli Sottozero - BMW E46 M3 – Snow – Average, Ice – Average, Wet/Cold Roads – Very Good, Dry Handling – Excellent.
3rd Set - Continental WinterContact TS 830P SSR 205/50 R17 89H* (Runflat) – BMW M135i - Snow – Average, Ice – Average, Wet/Cold Roads – Good, Dry Handling – Acceptable. (Current OEM BMW Winter Tyre)
Whilst I’m a complete winter tyre convert, and I would recommend anyone who needs to use their car daily throughout the winter to purchase a set of winter tyres, I have also been stuck or found myself having difficulty finding traction, despite these winter tyres, in a few situations.
I think it’s worth noting that in addition to driving throughout the winter in North East Scotland on normal roads, commuting, car parks etc. I also like to travel up to the Highlands, through the glens, up and down steep hills, farm tracks, visit the Glenshee and Lecht ski-resorts etc. I like to be able to go EVERYWHERE and the occasions that I’ve found myself having problems due to lack of traction have been variable, i.e. sometimes it’s at the bottom of a steep hill and I’ve struggled to get going, but sometimes it’s been on the flat and it just seems to be a problem patch of ice under the snow etc. Although the winter tyres make an amazing difference, they do not make you invincible and enable you to drive on all roads in all circumstances. I’m an experienced driver with many miles under my belt in a variety of different cars, but despite this, if the tyre is struggling for grip, there’s only so much you can do to overcome that using driving style etc. I have occasionally been sitting parked in traffic on a particularly icy steep road and felt the car begin to creep/slide on the ice.
After trying the tyres above and reading many reviews etc., I’m interested in getting the very best possible winter tyre that I can. From what I’ve read, Nordic (Scandinavian Europe & Canada / North America) tyres are different from what we are normally supplied with in the UK, which are called “European” / Performance / All-Season winters, depending on who is describing them. The biggest difference I can see is that the ‘Nordic’ winter tyres perform a LOT better on snow and ice, but there is some trade off for handling and feel / speed ratings during wet or dry winter driving. For someone who lives in London or somewhere similar, or indeed the vast majority of the UK, the main winter conditions they are likely to face would be mostly cold wet / dry / frosty roads, so I can see the appeal of “European” performance winter tyres. However, when you are stuck on a particularly slippery section of road leading to a Highland ski resort or similar, you really want the maximum amount of winter performance on snow and ice!! Is it worth giving up some wet/dry grip and handling most of the winter, for increased performance in the couple of weeks we have snow?
My question is, I’m thinking about replacing the tyres on my BMW M135i with either Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 205/50 R17 93R XL Nordic compound or Continental WinterContact TS 850P 205/50 R17 93H XL(Updated non-Run-Flat version of the TS 830 P OEM winter package I have now). Does anyone have any experience of using Nordic winter tyres in Scotland, in particular the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 205/50 R17 93R XL, or does anyone have any views or advice they could share?
Which tyres do people think I should choose for my circumstances?
I have used Scandinavian spec Nokians in Sweden on test trips. They are really good. On Swedish roads up near the Arctic circle they performed almost as well as studded tyres on the road and frozen lakes. On smooth sheet ice the studded tyres were a big step on, but in all other conditions they were very very good.
A different environment, but maybe useful insight - I use studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas on my '13 Impreza STI here in Canada. I live and work at a ski resort, so cold weather is the norm from mid November until the end of March. They're hands-down the best winter tires I've used. Sure there's a trade off in steering feel and sidewall roll, but traction and grip is very secure. Hard to comment on tire wear as so much of my winter running is on hard packed snow.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Serious question...why not just buy a 4x4? You sound like the sort of person who needs one more than most.
Why fight nature, especially oop north in a BMW of all cars?
Because all a 4wd will do for him is allow him to spin 4 wheels instead of 2. For his needs he's gone about it in the most sensible and non-kneejerk way, IMHO.Why fight nature, especially oop north in a BMW of all cars?
Because I like driving a powerful RWD BMW, especially throughout the summer, but even in the winter too.
When I ran my M3, I used to have a £2500 Toyota Hi-lux 2nd car for going shooting in the summer and playing in the snow in the winter, but then I found that in normal "road" driving, unless there was snow deeper than 5 inches, the M3 actually felt safer, more secure, more fun, and allowed longer journeys (30 miles +) to be performed a lot quicker and more cheaply than chugging along slowly in an ancient 4x4 (just for info, I ran my Hilux on both summer and winter tyres at various points). I've done the whole "2 car" thing, and prefer just having one decent one.
I find that after spending £35,000 on a lovely, comfortable BMW M135i, I'd rather drive that than sit in an old £2k - £3k 4x4 which would be costly to tax, insure, and maintain. If the alternative is to spend £40k on a modern 4x4 SUV to use as my single car, then I'd get completely sickened that it was absolutely no fun to drive during the 50 weeks of the year that we don't have snow...
My dilemma is whether the Nokian Hakkapeliita R2's would be too compromised for normal winter driving in the wet / dry / frosty non-snowy or icy roads, and whether I'd hate driving it or not, or whether the differences would be small between that and a "UK winter tyre" but I would have much better performance in snow and ice when the time comes?
When I ran my M3, I used to have a £2500 Toyota Hi-lux 2nd car for going shooting in the summer and playing in the snow in the winter, but then I found that in normal "road" driving, unless there was snow deeper than 5 inches, the M3 actually felt safer, more secure, more fun, and allowed longer journeys (30 miles +) to be performed a lot quicker and more cheaply than chugging along slowly in an ancient 4x4 (just for info, I ran my Hilux on both summer and winter tyres at various points). I've done the whole "2 car" thing, and prefer just having one decent one.
I find that after spending £35,000 on a lovely, comfortable BMW M135i, I'd rather drive that than sit in an old £2k - £3k 4x4 which would be costly to tax, insure, and maintain. If the alternative is to spend £40k on a modern 4x4 SUV to use as my single car, then I'd get completely sickened that it was absolutely no fun to drive during the 50 weeks of the year that we don't have snow...
My dilemma is whether the Nokian Hakkapeliita R2's would be too compromised for normal winter driving in the wet / dry / frosty non-snowy or icy roads, and whether I'd hate driving it or not, or whether the differences would be small between that and a "UK winter tyre" but I would have much better performance in snow and ice when the time comes?
Fox- said:
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Serious question...why not just buy a 4x4? You sound like the sort of person who needs one more than most.
Why fight nature, especially oop north in a BMW of all cars?
Because all a 4wd will do for him is allow him to spin 4 wheels instead of 2. For his needs he's gone about it in the most sensible and non-kneejerk way, IMHO.Why fight nature, especially oop north in a BMW of all cars?
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