Surround sound kit

[PAULJ5555]

What are peoples thoughts on 5.1 setups, Some people have large floor standers, large centre, sub and bookshelves for rears, others go for 5 tiny satellites speakers and just rely on sub for base.

I assume people go for the small satellites to save space, but what makes a better setup for sound - obviously make and budget will have a lot to do with it as well.

[bristolracer]

Right ill get shot down for this by the purists..............

Do you really need surround sound and all the amp speakers etc that go with it?
Having installed a few for customers as well as my own im not convinced they are worth the bother
There are some seriously good sound bars out there today, simple to operate good sound albeit not surround sound.

Ok its not 5.1 or 6.1 etc but i only really ever notice the rears on my system during movies and annoyingly during some adverts. The sub woofer rarely is noticed as i dont listen to it that loud.
They are also compromised as music amplifiers.
If the amp has wandered off source then my wife cannot operate the TV and they come with a manual the size of a telephone directory.

Sound bars just work, play the connected source and for 99% of my viewing will do the job very well.
Most also have blue tooth so if use an ipod type thing you can bang your music straight over.

Awaits the flames.........

[Silver940]

Which sound bars work ok?

I hardly ever turn the 5.1 on in our lounge these days and would like the cleaner look of a soundbar

[C0ffin D0dger]

Really depends what you're going for, what your listening environment is etc.

If you got a dedicated cinema room that is isolated enough that you're not going to annoy your neighbours / wake up the kids then floor standers and a good separates system all the way.

For a typical domestic environment the 5 satellites + sub can give a good enough sound and you won't be cranking it up too much so no problem with it all starting to distort if loud. The all in one systems aren't bad but you'll get a better quality with separates plus the flexibility for future upgrades etc.

Sound bars, hmmm, not sure you'd ever get the true 5.1 experience from one but a worthwhile investment if you live in a small house / flat / terrace as the sound will always be better than the TVs built in speakers.

[probedb]

Soundbars are OK if you don't have the space but they're not a replacement for a proper 5.1 system. And that's nothing to do with purists or whatever, if they were so good they'd use them in cinemas and there'd be no use for 5.1 setups. They're good as spacesavers and/or an upgrade to your TVs built-in speakers. You may notice we didn't really have soundbars until flat screen TVs became so prominent, mainly because you could put bigger speakers and get a better sound out of a bigger box that is required for a CRT

If I were to buy again I'd get a sub-satellite package for a lounge setup just because it's tidier. Good amps have good auto setup and EQ so they'll sound decent. You don't necessarily have to buy the sub and sat from the same manufacturer either.

[anonymous-user]

Both of my 5.1 kits are in their boxes. One a Sony the other a Panasonic. I can't be doing with speakers everywhere any more. Must be getting old!

[clockworks]

For me, sound is nearly as important as picture quality. If I couldn't have a decent surround system with a fairly large centre speaker, I'd just go for a stereo setup. Sub and satellites just doesn't do it for me, as the centre is way too small for convincing dialogue.

[probedb]

clockworks said:

For me, sound is nearly as important as picture quality. If I couldn't have a decent surround system with a fairly large centre speaker, I'd just go for a stereo setup. Sub and satellites just doesn't do it for me, as the centre is way too small for convincing dialogue.

Depends on the setup, satellites don't just mean tiny little speakers. And you don't need huge speakers for dialogue.

[toohuge]

I have to agree with Bristolracer.....

We have a Bose tv which is awesome and very, very easy to use.

My wife wouldn't have speakers everywhere in our living room as it doesn't suit the room and would be seldom used and would require my wife having to turn everything on etc.

If you have a dedicated room, then the speakers and amps etc. are all good fun, but for everyday, I would be inclined to go for a decent sound bar. I have heard good things from Sony - good value for money. The Bose one is very good imo, but very, very expensive and you can get similar results for much less.

[SeanyD]

Another person to be shot down by the purists here.

We used to have full size floor standing 5.0 speakers, sounded okay, but bulky and can look a bit intrusive.

We then had a baby daughter who would quite happy pull them over/eat them/smear chocolate etc, so we replaced with 5 wall mounted high up bose double cubes with cables in the walls, back up with a decent none-bose amp and sub. Have to say they sound very very good indeed, very discreet, very loud.

There are lovers and haters I'm sure, but they work for me, and earn a wow from most visitors.

[anonymous-user]

I've got 5 ceiling speakers and a sub. I only ever use for music and films - never normal TV. I would never be without 5.1 because I'm a big film buff.

[clockworks]

probedb said:

Depends on the setup, satellites don't just mean tiny little speakers. And you don't need huge speakers for dialogue.

I guess it depends on your definition of "small" and "satellites".

To me, a sub and satellite setup is where the sub (or the DVD player) contains all the amplification for 5 small speakers, and small means anything less than bookshelf-sized.
I know that there are some highly-rated small speakers available, but they tend to be expensive.

I use a Quad L-ite setup, and I wouldn't want to go too much smaller. The Quad speakers perform very well compared to my previous Monitor Audio/Ruark/B&W setup, and take up a lot less space.
I had a few home demos before buying the Quads, including a (rather expensive) Definitive Audio soundbar/rears/sub system. The sound quality, size and flexibility of placement made the cheaper Quads best for me.

[FlossyThePig]

PAULJ5555 said:

What are peoples thoughts on 5.1 setups, Some people have large floor standers, large centre, sub and bookshelves for rears, others go for 5 tiny satellites speakers and just rely on sub for base.

Putting my pedant hat on, 5.1 systems don't have rear speakers. They are side speakers, rear speakers are part of 7.1 systems.

[OldSkoolRS]

probedb said:

Depends on the setup, satellites don't just mean tiny little speakers. And you don't need huge speakers for dialogue.

Exactly; technically I have 'satellite' speakers (MK MP150 series on wall version), but I prefer them over bigger floor standers when combined with a pair of 15" subwoofers. They produce a fantastic sound helped by the fact that all the front three are exactly the same speaker, so the sound matches perfectly across the front (and the surrounds also for that matter).

Very often, systems that use big floorstanders along with a smaller centre speaker don't work as well as the smaller centre can't match the sound properly (I know I've tried various combinations over 16 years of AV upgrades). Of course if the main use is for stereo sound and the 5.1 is just an addition, then perhaps it's a case of different priorities.

However, I've gone to the trouble of hiding all the cables in the wall and the surrounds are white which helps them blend in with the decor...it just depends on whether you are that bothered about decent sound for films/concerts, etc or whether it's mostly just for 'back ground' listening.

To be honest, during the week I tend to just use the TV's own speakers as I'm rarely actually watching and my OH can use the TV without bother, though if I put the AV amp on then she just uses a (cheap) universal remote that I've set up to control the amp for sound and the TV for picture. I tend to put on my AV system when I watch something particular rather than just background (and when I use my projector).

Each to their own though...I'm sure there are plenty of people with other pieces of gear I don't see much need for (such as multiroom type sound systems for example like Sonos).

Edited by OldSkoolRS on Friday 7th November 19:29

[rhinochopig]

I have micro Gallo Ti speakers - 4 of them - mounted in the ceiling to offer side and rear channels. The fronts sides are on the 'flower' stands, and the centre is hidden in a AV unit. Very very discrete and sounds superb - very musical. Other than the speakers on stands, which I went with for aesthetic reasons, you really don't notice them.

[ASK1974]

PAULJ5555 said:

What are peoples thoughts on 5.1 setups, Some people have large floor standers, large centre, sub and bookshelves for rears, others go for 5 tiny satellites speakers and just rely on sub for base.

I assume people go for the small satellites to save space, but what makes a better setup for sound - obviously make and budget will have a lot to do with it as well.

I'm going to ignore the implications of mixing Hi-Fi and Home cinema as the OP hasn't mentioned that. So Cinema only.

Fairly simple equation : Bigger room = bigger speaker.

However smaller speakers are still perfectly good for smaller rooms but there is a limit. The subwoofer is there for low frequency effects (LFE) so anything above 100Hz or so is going to be a problem. Tiny speakers that need a sub set above 150Hz are not worth considering. The good news is that most of us don't have huge rooms so you can use smaller speakers, we still want to use full range speakers but set our crossover to around 80Hz; this way the subwoofer can manage low frequency without compromising the surround speakers. If you have a big room then bigger speakers are required to meet industry standards and you'll still need a powered subwoofer, only the most heroic speakers can manage LFE on their own. A correctly engineered speaker system for any size room will be awesome, obviously there are price scales and better speakers will offer greater dynamics and resolution.

Aesthetics is the single biggest limiting factor and we will all make compromises to maintain family unity. If you have a finished Lounge (not decorating) and you want to install a good system you'll find this pretty difficult, the only advise would be to choose speakers that compliment the room rather than defaulting to system compromises such as soundbars and tiny, weeny speakers. Use those as options of last resort. Subject to budget there are lots of good brands with full range, smallish speakers available in various shapes and finishes. Speaker location is key as well, if you can't put speakers in the right place (see Dolby/DTS info on line) then think hard about what to spend your money on - no point installing a system wrong. On the other hand if you have a room that allows perfect speaker positioning, you're decorating and have a few quid to spare then you can have some fun.

Anyone suggesting soundbars are a competitive solution needs their ears checked, I will concede that they will offer a better audio performance than a TV but to suggest they can compete with multi speaker setups is just wrong. Go have a Dolby Atmos demo and see for yourself. Home theatre in a box (HTiaB) systems are not much better, they have poor quality speakers and subwoofers with crossovers set way too high due to the limitations of the surround speakers, but they are cheap so they have their place in the market.

[Some Gump]

Each to their own, but IMO soundbars are utter cack - they just seem good because the internal speakers in mega thin panels are so much worse than internal speakers in CET's used to be. They might give you some sort of surround-ish effect by tricking your brain (like a dolby tv used to, but marginally better), but you simply can't create soundwaves starting behind you using speakers in front of you - not in a domestic setting anyway.

If they work for people, then that's great - but they're either right for you or just not high quality / loud enough - just like the old "ipod and a dock vs proper cd system" debate. IF I were you, I'd go to a decent (specialist) shop and try soundbar, 2.1, 5.1, seperates and within about 30 minutes you'll know for sure which option is best for you.

IMO, the reason so many people buy 5.1 then not use it is that it's a strange product - if you're doing it you need to do it properly, or you might as well not bother. If you get a 300 pound all in 1 box job, it'll sound crap and then you have the inconvenience of all the wires and speakers, but nothing close to a proper home cinema experience. Get a setup for 800+, and the quality will be so much better that the sound really becomes part of the film / sports / music experience - justifying the impact on home decor. The scary thing is tho that 800 quid really is the rough bottom end of where it becomes worthwhile - below that you'll have cheap / lame subwoofers that are boomy and horrid, and a tendancy to be horrendous with music. From there, IMO the more you spend (in general) the better it gets, before starting to get diminishing returns north of 2k.

I'm a partial "purist" though - I love music and films, and have good ears and crap eyesight. I'd also rather listen to nowt than a song played off an iphone on "speaker". This is why you need to get to a shop and decide for yourself - it's the only way to get a system that's right for you.

[Crackie]

C0ffin D0dger said:

Really depends what you're going for, what your listening environment is etc.

+1

There are many variables.
How big is the room and how loud do you listen ?

Bigger rooms don't necessarily need big speakers; small satellites can fill very large rooms with no issues at all. Generally bigger speakers will play louder but there are exceptions

If the sub is taking care of bass up to 80-90Hz then then most satellites will be able to handle all frequencies above that. Eg. A sat design with a realistic 87-88dB sensitivity powered by a realistic 50w amp will be capable of 104-105db at 1m; the sound pressure will be higher with all 5 playing and probably nearer 108-109dB.

SPL at 2m 102-103dB
SPL at 3m 99-100dB
SPL at 4m 96-97dB

These aren't THX levels but they are louder than most people listen.

[OldSkoolRS]

Crackie said:

SPL at 2m 102-103dB
SPL at 3m 99-100dB
SPL at 4m 96-97dB

These aren't THX levels but they are louder than most people listen.

I agree: I designed my set up and subs to be able to achieve reference level down to 20Hz (and only a little less down to 10Hz) at 3.5 metre viewing position. However in practice I typically listen around 10-15dB below that, not because of neighbours (I don't have any attached) but because it is just too loud for my taste. At least I've got plenty of headroom, so the sound is clean, which was the main reason for targeting reference.

[Crackie]

OldSkoolRS said:

I agree: I designed my set up and subs to be able to achieve reference level down to 20Hz (and only a little less down to 10Hz) at 3.5 metre viewing position. However in practice I typically listen around 10-15dB below that, not because of neighbours (I don't have any attached) but because it is just too loud for my taste. At least I've got plenty of headroom, so the sound is clean, which was the main reason for targeting reference.

Hi OldskoolRS, sounds you've got your Fi subs up and running well then.

Still struggling to get the various cabs sorted for mine; I've had all the amps, dacs and drivers ready to go for months.