Opinion: C30 vs Civic

[cj2013]

Criteria: we're talking sub £6k, 6 year old cars here. Something quirky, stylish and derv powered.

The Civic 2.2 Type-S GT
or
Volvo C30 R Design (2.0 or 2.4)

I think there's pros and cons to both in terms of style, but I have a habit of ignoring any scrap of common sense when I get taken by a car's appearance.

Can't see an awful lot of issues with the C30, 1.6 DV6 engine aside (as per PSA and Ford). Do remember hearing some issues with the Honda 2.2 CDTi, but again that's probably one or two vague references in a sea of sales.

Anyone own/have experience of either?

[morgrp]

Civic certainly a more practical car but provided you get the 5pot derv in the c30 in either 2.0 or 2.4 guise I'd go for that - it's a cracking engine and full of character - driven a d3 2.0 5pot (160odd bhp) and a d4 (177bhp) and a d5 (but not as a c30) driven a civic 2.2 cdti but not in the latest shape and it was fine but personally I liked the volvo engine better, much more free revving and sounds nice too - 4pot diesels sound crap in my opinion - expect anything between 40-60mpg from either car on balance I'd take the volvo but it comes down to personal circumstances and tastes - test drive both and then decide

[morgrp]

As for issues, working in the trade, the 5pot volvo diesels (and the honda 2.2 for that matter) are largely trouble free - avoid the volvo 4pot diesels - sound like a bloody tractor anyway

[cj2013]

morgrp said:

Civic certainly a more practical car but provided you get the 5pot derv in the c30 in either 2.0 or 2.4 guise I'd go for that - it's a cracking engine and full of character - driven a d3 2.0 5pot (160odd bhp) and a d4 (177bhp) and a d5 (but not as a c30) driven a civic 2.2 cdti but not in the latest shape and it was fine but personally I liked the volvo engine better, much more free revving and sounds nice too - 4pot diesels sound crap in my opinion - expect anything between 40-60mpg from either car on balance I'd take the volvo but it comes down to personal circumstances and tastes - test drive both and then decide

Great advice, thanks.

I, fortunately, don't need practicality as I've not got kids, yet I'm knocking on for 30 so I still get decent insurance quotes. Oddly, the 1.6D seemed to be more expensive that the 5 pots, considering it's half the power almost.

I'm not too keen on the 'facelift' that the Volvo range went through in 2009 or so, and when I see the older shape R-Design fronted Volvos I do find them really appealing.

The Civic has a quirky interior, what with the 'spaceship' Star Trek style dashboard, which appeals, but then again they're hardly considered remarkable due to how common they are now.

The Volvos are a bit more scarce, so a test drive is in the plans but I might have to drive a bit to see one!

[Matt Clay]

I've an 07 Civic 2.2 5 Door, had it 2 and a half years, bought at 70k miles and now at 108k.

It's fine, it's practical (load space+magic seats=excellent when needed), well equipped, a nice driving feel and position. It seems to impress people's parents and other non car people when they sit in the front, the dash is really well thought out and standout from other cars of the time. The two tier display with the speedo above is a really nice touch, and the sat nav is well positioned.

Negatives are:

- Clutch/DMF is a weak point, but sure that's the case on a lot of diesels
- Potentially rusty roof where the rubber seal joins at the top of the windscreen (this was warranty fix within 6-7 years I think). You can avoid the rusty roof problem by going for a panoramic roof.
- Suspension is awful and jarring
- OEM head unit and speakers are not up to much
- Paint is woefully thin.
- Electric mirrors can fail due to a crap part. Cheap (less than £10) refurb option and a 5 minute change over job to resolve.
- Grey plastic body trim of Pre 09 - non Type S models can really let the car's image down. There are solutions, but time and/or money to sort

I don't think I'd have another one, but it has been a fine car from a money saving point of view.

[cj2013]

Matt Clay said:

I've an 07 Civic 2.2 5 Door, had it 2 and a half years, bought at 70k miles and now at 108k.

It's fine, it's practical (load space+magic seats=excellent when needed), well equipped, a nice driving feel and position. It seems to impress people's parents and other non car people when they sit in the front, the dash is really well thought out and standout from other cars of the time. The two tier display with the speedo above is a really nice touch, and the sat nav is well positioned.

Negatives are:

- Clutch/DMF is a weak point, but sure that's the case on a lot of diesels
- Potentially rusty roof where the rubber seal joins at the top of the windscreen (this was warranty fix within 6-7 years I think). You can avoid the rusty roof problem by going for a panoramic roof.
- Suspension is awful and jarring
- OEM head unit and speakers are not up to much
- Paint is woefully thin.
- Electric mirrors can fail due to a crap part. Cheap (less than £10) refurb option and a 5 minute change over job to resolve.
- Grey plastic body trim of Pre 09 - non Type S models can really let the car's image down. There are solutions, but time and/or money to sort

I don't think I'd have another one, but it has been a fine car from a money saving point of view.

Thanks - appreciate the honesty; not too many people are honest about criticising their car.

In my head I feel that the Volvo would be the better option, not least to maybe feel like I've got something a little less common (if that's fair to say?), but I did worry that a Honda would be seen as a better choice to Edward Cullen's odd-box ford focus :P

[towser44]

Matt Clay said:

I've an 07 Civic 2.2 5 Door, had it 2 and a half years, bought at 70k miles and now at 108k.

It's fine, it's practical (load space+magic seats=excellent when needed), well equipped, a nice driving feel and position. It seems to impress people's parents and other non car people when they sit in the front, the dash is really well thought out and standout from other cars of the time. The two tier display with the speedo above is a really nice touch, and the sat nav is well positioned.

Negatives are:

- Clutch/DMF is a weak point, but sure that's the case on a lot of diesels
- Potentially rusty roof where the rubber seal joins at the top of the windscreen (this was warranty fix within 6-7 years I think). You can avoid the rusty roof problem by going for a panoramic roof.
- Suspension is awful and jarring
- OEM head unit and speakers are not up to much
- Paint is woefully thin.
- Electric mirrors can fail due to a crap part. Cheap (less than £10) refurb option and a 5 minute change over job to resolve.
- Grey plastic body trim of Pre 09 - non Type S models can really let the car's image down. There are solutions, but time and/or money to sort

I don't think I'd have another one, but it has been a fine car from a money saving point of view.

I've got a 58 plate Civic diesel (5 door SE) and would concur with most of the above points. Bought it at 20k 3 years ago and it's now just coming up to 50k. It's been nothing but reliable (admittedly the mileage is relatively low), with the exception of:

- the air con relay draining the battery which took 3 trips to the dealer for them to identify despite it being a common problem. Got it replaced under the 12 month warranty that came with the car
- Rusty roof problem. Mine was registered in Jan 2009. They extended the warranty for the roof for a further 3 years (so up to 6 years). I've got a claim in with Honda UK for this to be repaired. Hoping to hear back this week and the dealer has provisionally booked the bodyshop for end of November. The problem is a poor seal between the top of the windscreen and roof.

Other points:
- The grey plastic trim, especially on the wheel arches is terrible. It has never looked grey or black irrespective of how much wax or back to black i've put on. Their coming off next year either for a trim dye to go on or colour code respray. You can buy colour coded parts, but they are about £90 a corner from Honda!
- Stereo and speakers aren't great, but popular thing is to get a double din and upgrade the speakers whilst you're at it. Some on Civinfo have just dynamatted behind the door cards and noticed an improvement. The sound deadening from the factory is practically non-existent.
- Suspension I don't think is bad at all, maybe a little harsh at times, but still comfortable. Nowhere near as bad as a Type-R though. Mines an SE+, so not sure if suspension is different between Type S etc
- Paint is thin, I take a lot of care detailing mine, but stone chips, especially on the bonnet make me wonder why I bother!
- Squeaky clutch pedal is another problem. Apparently it is the slave cylinder, but some have been replaced and the squeak returns anyway. Mine is intermittent and I haven't got around to doing anything with it. Probably going to upgrade the clutch next year and get a Stage 1 remap with Celtic Tuning to around 190 bhp.

Despite the above, I love my Civic and can't see me changing it anytime soon. The engine can be super economical if you want. I managed 350 miles to Newcastle and back and the computer said 67mpg on mostly motorway/dual carriageway between 55 and 65mph. I was on a work trip and wasn't in a hurry to get there and back, plus I was on 45 per mile :-) Over the 3 years I've averaged 42mpg and that includes a lot of nursery runs in town traffic over short distances.

Check out Civinfo, it has a wealth of information including numerous threads on all of the above!

[Hubris]

Agree with what everyone else has said about the Civic. In comparison, the boot is tardis-like in the Civic, while the Volvo's is positively tiny in comparison.

My 2.2 was one of the most unreliable cars I've owned. Still loved it, though.

[cj2013]

Thanks, all.

Boot space isn't a massive issue - rarely does anyone else get in the car and when they do, it's normally the mrs.

I basically work away and face a 100 mile + journey most weekends, each way, to go back to see her and the house. Been using a 206 1.4 hdi which has done over 200k but still coax over 70mpg out of it but, despite the work I've done on it, on the motorway journeys it still feels a little tired so my main criteria has been:

- comfortable cruiser (cruise control and/or at least relatively happy on the motorway)
- reasonable economy (near 50mpg would be nice on eco-motorway runs)

and this is the big one for me:

- different/quirky enough to keep me entertained

I've been through a lot of cars out of losing interest for different reasons; had an R50 MINI Cooper which I really liked, but soon got fed up of the harsh ride and waiting for the clock to tick on the PAS/Gearbox etc.

So far, I've not found too much that stands out as an issue with the Volvo (as long as it's none of the PSA engines), so i'm still swayed in that direction. That said, i'll have to find some D5 owners to interrogate!

[Pooh]

I had a 1.8 Honda Civic Type S GT, it was not a very good car, the build quality was dire, lots of rattles and squeaks and poor quality plastic, reliability was not great, the clutch was on the way out and the fuel gauge did not always work. This was a 2 year old 30k mile car, I replaced it with a 170 bhp petrol Alfa Giulietta which is now just over 2 years old, has done 30k miles and is better in almost every way including build quality and reliability which have been faultless.
I considered the Volvo C30 to replace the Civic but the fact that it only has two rear seats ruled it out for me.

[cj2013]

Pooh said:

I had a 1.8 Honda Civic Type S GT, it was not a very good car, the build quality was dire, lots of rattles and squeaks and poor quality plastic, reliability was not great, the clutch was on the way out and the fuel gauge did not always work. This was a 2 year old 30k mile car, I replaced it with a 170 bhp petrol Alfa Giulietta which is now just over 2 years old, has done 30k miles and is better in almost every way including build quality and reliability which have been faultless.
I considered the Volvo C30 to replace the Civic but the fact that it only has two rear seats ruled it out for me.

I guess what attracts me to the C30 is the fact that I used to have a 480. I loved the fact that sitting in the back was just like being in the front (in terms of the whole quirky design). Used to be able to read engine and BCU codes using a little flashing light and probe that was built in to the fusebox!

I find having 5 seats is like having a guest room in your house - when you don't have it, you always feel like you need it, but when you get it you find that you never use it!

[Pooh]

cj2013 said:

I guess what attracts me to the C30 is the fact that I used to have a 480. I loved the fact that sitting in the back was just like being in the front (in terms of the whole quirky design). Used to be able to read engine and BCU codes using a little flashing light and probe that was built in to the fusebox!

I find having 5 seats is like having a guest room in your house - when you don't have it, you always feel like you need it, but when you get it you find that you never use it!

I always liked the 480 from a looks point of view but I have never driven one, as you don't need the rear seats then the C30 would be an interesting choice, I have four kids so having two four seat cars would be a bit daft.

[cj2013]

Pooh said:

I always liked the 480 from a looks point of view but I have never driven one, as you don't need the rear seats then the C30 would be an interesting choice, I have four kids so having two four seat cars would be a bit daft.

I guess so.

I'd quite happily go for a V50 if it wasn't for the fact that:

a) I have no use for the extra seats
b) I have no use for the load capacity
c) The mrs would give me a hard time and probably call it an old man car

The 480 was an interesting car, but it was typical of the volvos of the era - tank like to drive! Felt about 1000kgs heavier than it perhaps was.

[Matt Clay]

towser44 said:

~snip~

Nicely added.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret getting the Civic and do like it, and will likely keep it for at least another 18 months. I think I'm mostly disappointed as it's my first diesel. I'd probably have preferred the petrol (had a Prelude before getting the Civic) but had the blinkered diesel mindset for motorway munching money saving. Which has paid off, but the savings will be cut down drastically as the clutch has been slipping for the last 30k miles on and off. Either I pay to get it replaced and keep it, or I just um and ah about getting it fixed or adding the cost of that to the trade in for the Civic and getting something else.

I was probably a bit harsh on the suspension, it makes up for it by actually being quite enjoyable to drive on the back roads when I get the chance.

Civinfo is indeed excellent for the information that can be found on there.

I've averaged a calcuated 48mpg over my time with it, 64mpg is achievable on a decent run, can easily get 52 to a tank on my 73mph commute, and it happily gets 44mpg under 100 on the Autobahn.

[cj2013]

Matt Clay said:

Nicely added.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret getting the Civic and do like it, and will likely keep it for at least another 18 months. I think I'm mostly disappointed as it's my first diesel. I'd probably have preferred the petrol (had a Prelude before getting the Civic) but had the blinkered diesel mindset for motorway munching money saving. Which has paid off, but the savings will be cut down drastically as the clutch has been slipping for the last 30k miles on and off. Either I pay to get it replaced and keep it, or I just um and ah about getting it fixed or adding the cost of that to the trade in for the Civic and getting something else.

I was probably a bit harsh on the suspension, it makes up for it by actually being quite enjoyable to drive on the back roads when I get the chance.

Civinfo is indeed excellent for the information that can be found on there.

I've averaged a calcuated 48mpg over my time with it, 64mpg is achievable on a decent run, can easily get 52 to a tank on my 73mph commute, and it happily gets 44mpg under 100 on the Autobahn.

That's fair enough, I just don't know whether there's too many about for me to just sigh a little when I inevitably see 1.6million of them in the same colour when I go to the shop (exaggerating, but you know what I mean).

As a leftfield additional option, any opinions on the 407 Coupe? (or indeed any other suggestions)

[FakeConcern]

C4 VTS, quirky inside and out & see them less even than the C30 (like Volvos as well BTW)
Have a look
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-CITROEN-C4-Coupe-2-...

[cj2013]

FakeConcern said:

C4 VTS, quirky inside and out & see them less even than the C30 (like Volvos as well BTW)
Have a look
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-CITROEN-C4-Coupe-2-...

I do like them, but what puts me off is a mate had a '05 1.4 VTR a few years back and the interior looked and felt like it was a cake decoration.

The key fob was also biodegradable :/

[Mister3man]

I had an 08 Civic Type S GT, the clutch pressure plate failed at 50,000 miles. The issue is a spring on the self adjuster goes weak, and does not maintain sufficient pressure on the friction plate.

When buying, best thing to do is put the car in 4th on road test and accellerate from 1300rpm-3000rpm. If the clutch is going to slip, it will slip then.

The car was out of warranty but Honda did provide goodwill towards the cost of the clutch replacement.

Apart from the above my example was very reliable, over 2 years/30k I had an o/s/r caliper seize and clutch...which wasn't too bad in my opinion.

Trim and dash rattles are common though, build quality does lag behind my old EP3.

[anonymous-user]

Two nice cars to choose from there, I really liked the 2.2 Civics we had on our fleet but they almost all developed clutch slip before three years old. They weren't treated gently though.

Between the two I'd have a hard job turning down a 5 cylinder Volvo though, it's one of the most characterful and enjoyable diesel engines going with a really surprising engine note. Even if you wouldn't normally be into modifications look into the prices of a Polestar remap from a Volvo dealer too, it makes a bigger difference to driveability than the headline power improvement would suggest and is Volvo approved. Also worth mentioning that the ergonomics of the Volvo will be in another league to the Civic, with some of the best seats going and even the entry level audio system is as good as a lot of manufacturers "premium" systems. If you can source a Volvo with the Dynaudio speaker system it's great. If you're interested in economy avoid Geartronic automatic Volvos, they absolutely hammer economy. My C70 with the same D5 engine and a lot more weight to lug around will get 60mpg if you can stand a 60MPH cruise control run on the motorway and easily averages high 40s if you can't.

As someone else stated the 4 pot Volvo (really Ford/PSA) diesels are as horrible as any 4 pot diesel though.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 10th November 13:52

[cj2013]

dme123 said:

Two nice cars to choose from there, I really liked the 2.2 Civics we had on our fleet but they almost all developed clutch slip before three years old. They weren't treated gently though.

Between the two I'd have a hard job turning down a 5 cylinder Volvo though, it's one of the most characterful and enjoyable diesel engines going with a really surprising engine note. Even if you wouldn't normally be into modifications look into the prices of a Polestar remap from a Volvo dealer too, it makes a bigger difference to driveability than the headline power improvement would suggest and is Volvo approved. Also worth mentioning that the ergonomics of the Volvo will be in another league to the Civic, with some of the best seats going and even the entry level audio system is as good as a lot of manufacturers "premium" systems. If you can source a Volvo with the Dynaudio speaker system it's great. If you're interested in economy avoid Geartronic automatic Volvos, they absolutely hammer economy. My C70 with the same D5 engine and a lot more weight to lug around will get 60mpg if you can stand a 60MPH cruise control run on the motorway and easily averages high 40s if you can't.

As someone else stated the 4 pot Volvo (really Ford/PSA) diesels are as horrible as any 4 pot diesel though.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 10th November 13:52

Thanks for the input!

C30 is looking like a decent choice - certainly seems to be less issues from what I've read so far.