Legal Transfer of Car Ownership

[K0409964]

Moved this post across from General Gassing as probably more appropriate.

Hello,

I hope some of you guys can help...

I have given my car to a car dealer on a Sale or Return basis.

He told me a couple of weeks ago my car had been sold, the person buying the car will have the money cleared in his account by last Thursday. The dealer will then BACS the money over to me.

I have still not received the money, I have been speaking with the dealer pretty much daily and he keeps promising the money will be with me the next day. Now at this point I have no reason to distrust him, he has a website that is regularly updated, I have been to his dealership, has many performance cars etc. and he has feed back online, some good some bad but all appear real.

The answer I really want is when do I legally stop being the owner of the car, I am no longer the registered keeper, but I was led to believe that has nothing todo with ownership. I understand that I transfer ownership to the new owner when I receive consideration for the car and not before, I have a signed contact stating how much I need in order to sell the car. Does the dealer have the right to pass ownership on my behalf? I ask because if this all goes wrong and I have been conned do I just call the police and say the car has been stolen, which technically it has if I have not transferred ownership? I am really not going to do this I just want some comfort as I am feel very exposed at the moment, no car & no cash!!!

Some advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Will

[Bertrum]

Depends what the contract with the dealer says.

Also did you provide written authority against the buyer offer?

If the dealer has not stayed within your contract bounding and you can show proof of ownership of the car pre-dating you giving it to the dealer (an invoice) then the car is still yours.

Its like you selling a car you have on HP without paying off the HP. The finance company will still own it.

You could call the police and report the car as stolen.

(still depends on what the contract says).


Probably best to go and see the dealer.

[JustinP1]

It may be he has bills to pay.

The sale of your car paid those bills. What he is actually waiting on is the sale of the next car so he has the funds to pay you.

I would be as worried as you are. There's posts on here where people have had their car sold, and the dealer clams up, and/or disappears or winds up.


You just need to ask one question to him:

"At this moment, where is my car?"

If is is not on site, then of course it has been sold.

If it were me, and I'd had any doubts of this nature, I'd simply drive to the dealer - even if it's an hour or more away. If shenanigans are going on, they are best nipped in the bud.

I'd turn up, look for my car, if it's not there, I'd ask for my money. The ruse I would use is that instead of using BACS, that you'd prefer the cash. If the car is not there, then of course it's obvious the dealer has the money. In that case, he can accompany you to the bank to get the cash...

...unless there is a problem. In which case you demonstrate you are not a shy person politely asking where your money is that can be fobbed off miles away, you don't mind arriving on his doorstep.

[K0409964]

Thanks Guys.

In terms of the contract. It states "I give authority for the 'name of the dealership' to sell my vehicle as mentioned above, the vehicle will remain my responsibility until the vehicle is sold."

The as mentioned above just states the car specifics and the purchase price. I did not have to sign off the actual sale, I just have a guarantee of a minimum price that I want returned, this is in the contract and I have e-mail correspondence with him telling me he will return me a specific price, anything over and above that is his margin.

I guess that means I have given him permission to sell, but I would have thought it is implied I transfer ownership when I receive the consideration. i.e. he can sell on my behave but the sales is only concluded when I receive the money.

I am going to visit him, he is about and hour and half from me, if this does not get sorted, but I am unable to go until next weekend.

I don't want to report the car as stolen but I guess that is what he has done from me if he has sold it and he does not pay me for it? I can prove the vehicle is mine, i.e. i have invoices etc.

[JustinP1]

K0409964 said:

I guess that means I have given him permission to sell, but I would have thought it is implied I transfer ownership when I receive the consideration. i.e. he can sell on my behave but the sales is only concluded when I receive the money..

The reason I mentioned going down to the dealer is because this is not how it works.

If a buyer has paid for the car in a normal, genuine way, you can't just turn up at his home and take the car from him if he has gained good title. Similarly, if you've authorised a dealer to sell on your behalf, he is effectively your 'agent' - you are giving him the legal right to sell on your behalf. Once the car is sold, he simply owes you the money agreed.

Should the dealer have sold your car, and for whatever reason not pay you, you'll have to sue him. If he goes bust in the meantime, you'd be dealing with receivers. Effectively, all you have is that he owes you money.

I don't want to be a scaremonger, but exactly the above is the subject of a thread on here at least once a year.

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 14th November 15:16

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 14th November 15:18

[K0409964]

Ok thanks!

I hope he is not in the process of going bust then! If that is the case I assume I just line up behind the rest of his creditors?

Will let you know what happens.

Cheers.