Problem incorrectly identified by garage. What happens now?
Discussion
Hi, I have a Renault Megane with a starting problem that was incorrectly identified by the garage. Could anyone give me some advice please? I'm in a pretty bad situation here. Thanks.
Problem identified by garage as dephaser unit, which would an expensive fix at around £500.
Conversation:
Me "Is this definintly the problem? Is there anything else that it could be?"
Garage "This is the problem, there is nothing else"
Me "ok, go ahead"
The garage convinced me that they should also fit a dephaser solenoid which could cause dephaser failure again. Also cambelt and pump whilst they were in there.
Total £726 paid in full. Receipt states: “investigate problem with running and bad starting. Fault diagnosed to be dephaser fault and vvt control module. …fixed…etc”
Next morning, car would not start. Identical symptoms.
So, they have incorrectly diagnosed the problem and charged me a lot of money to do the wrong work. They claim that the car now runs better but it ran perfectly ok before, other than the real problem. Assuming they can now identify the real problem, who pays for it and what should be done about all of the incorrect work? In my view, this is a risk that a professional/company takes on. If I did my work incorrectly then I (my company) would pay (and I would get a telling off or a warning), not the customer.
Thanks again.
Problem identified by garage as dephaser unit, which would an expensive fix at around £500.
Conversation:
Me "Is this definintly the problem? Is there anything else that it could be?"
Garage "This is the problem, there is nothing else"
Me "ok, go ahead"
The garage convinced me that they should also fit a dephaser solenoid which could cause dephaser failure again. Also cambelt and pump whilst they were in there.
Total £726 paid in full. Receipt states: “investigate problem with running and bad starting. Fault diagnosed to be dephaser fault and vvt control module. …fixed…etc”
Next morning, car would not start. Identical symptoms.
So, they have incorrectly diagnosed the problem and charged me a lot of money to do the wrong work. They claim that the car now runs better but it ran perfectly ok before, other than the real problem. Assuming they can now identify the real problem, who pays for it and what should be done about all of the incorrect work? In my view, this is a risk that a professional/company takes on. If I did my work incorrectly then I (my company) would pay (and I would get a telling off or a warning), not the customer.
Thanks again.
It's present on Renaults VVT engines, something to do with camshaft and oil? Im sure someone more technical will be along to explain it but as you've found out the expensive way, this will not stop your car from starting it just makes a noise when its on its way out.
mcdk2 out of interest, what are the symptoms of your issue?
mcdk2 out of interest, what are the symptoms of your issue?
The problem with fixing faults like this is you don't know for sure what it is the fault codes dont give them an exact solution just symptoms.
A good garage will start off with the lowest cost possibilities before going for the expensive option like this.
I would expect them to check/change the crank sensor and cam position sensors before doing the above (TDC signal) can cause intermittent start and is not easy to detect.
A good garage will start off with the lowest cost possibilities before going for the expensive option like this.
I would expect them to check/change the crank sensor and cam position sensors before doing the above (TDC signal) can cause intermittent start and is not easy to detect.
The dephaser pulley won't have any affect on starting.
It essentially controls the cam change when the revs rise.
I imagine the actual problem is more to do with a coil pack, cam/ crank sensor but hasn't logged codes.
Mr mechanic plugs his computer in sees a de phaser code and gets a hard on for the £££ he'll make.
It essentially controls the cam change when the revs rise.
I imagine the actual problem is more to do with a coil pack, cam/ crank sensor but hasn't logged codes.
Mr mechanic plugs his computer in sees a de phaser code and gets a hard on for the £££ he'll make.
Thanks very much for the replies so far guys. The arrangement is that I call the garage this afternoon and see what they have found.
Original symptoms that were all reported to the garage:
- Cut out once whilst driving, engine fan on, low battery warning light on, buzzer sounding. Eastgate recovered the car.
- Did not start, low battery light, usually started after 45minutes of trying. This occurred three times before the work was done.
- Once, the engine stuttered at about 40mph
- Whistling sound whilst changing gear (like a turbo sound but the car doesn’t have one)
Are you absolutely sure that the dephaser unit error can't prevent the car from starting? If this is the case then what is states on the receipt is not correct.
Original symptoms that were all reported to the garage:
- Cut out once whilst driving, engine fan on, low battery warning light on, buzzer sounding. Eastgate recovered the car.
- Did not start, low battery light, usually started after 45minutes of trying. This occurred three times before the work was done.
- Once, the engine stuttered at about 40mph
- Whistling sound whilst changing gear (like a turbo sound but the car doesn’t have one)
Are you absolutely sure that the dephaser unit error can't prevent the car from starting? If this is the case then what is states on the receipt is not correct.
The garage just called me.
They say that it is the alternator overcharging. He has a photo of it at 15.22V and it sometimes charges at 13V. He claims it to be an intermittent charging problem. He says that as a gesture of goodwill he will fit it for free and alternator is £189+VAT. He also said that it might not fix the problem and that other parts might have been damaged by the overcharging.
He also said that the dephaser problem CAN cause starting problems.
I said that I need to think about it and will call him back today.
Any thought ?!?
They say that it is the alternator overcharging. He has a photo of it at 15.22V and it sometimes charges at 13V. He claims it to be an intermittent charging problem. He says that as a gesture of goodwill he will fit it for free and alternator is £189+VAT. He also said that it might not fix the problem and that other parts might have been damaged by the overcharging.
He also said that the dephaser problem CAN cause starting problems.
I said that I need to think about it and will call him back today.
Any thought ?!?
I had this recently...
But the garage were decent and noble and fixed the issue without any quibbles:
They collected the car, left a courtesy car, fixed the actual problem and credited me for the cost of the part they changed incorrectly (and did a few other odd jobs also).
It's this kind of response when things go wrong that retains customer loyalty.
(B for BMW in Clydebank if anyone's interested)
It will depend on the garage though. Good luck. As long as you didn't say "I've got a problem with XXXXXX, I think it's because of a faulty YYYYYY"
(easily done if you're into cars and you're trying to be helpful, but in the end, it's better to leave the diagnosis to the garage)
But the garage were decent and noble and fixed the issue without any quibbles:
They collected the car, left a courtesy car, fixed the actual problem and credited me for the cost of the part they changed incorrectly (and did a few other odd jobs also).
It's this kind of response when things go wrong that retains customer loyalty.
(B for BMW in Clydebank if anyone's interested)
It will depend on the garage though. Good luck. As long as you didn't say "I've got a problem with XXXXXX, I think it's because of a faulty YYYYYY"
(easily done if you're into cars and you're trying to be helpful, but in the end, it's better to leave the diagnosis to the garage)
mcdk2 said:
Are you absolutely sure that the dephaser unit error can't prevent the car from starting?
That's a red herring: either way the dephaser is what they diagnosed and they stated that the problem has been fixed. which it hasn't. mcdk2 said:
Receipt states: “investigate problem with running and bad starting. Fault diagnosed to be dephaser fault and vvt control module. …fixed…etc”
Have a chat with them and see if they will rectify their mistake to the tune of you not being out of pocket. I wouldn't throw good money after bad.mcdk2 said:
The garage just called me.
They say that it is the alternator overcharging. He has a photo of it at 15.22V and it sometimes charges at 13V. He claims it to be an intermittent charging problem. He says that as a gesture of goodwill he will fit it for free and alternator is £189+VAT. He also said that it might not fix the problem and that other parts might have been damaged by the overcharging.
He also said that the dephaser problem CAN cause starting problems.
I said that I need to think about it and will call him back today.
Any thought ?!?
overcharging isnt right, but i cant see it being the cause of non starting They say that it is the alternator overcharging. He has a photo of it at 15.22V and it sometimes charges at 13V. He claims it to be an intermittent charging problem. He says that as a gesture of goodwill he will fit it for free and alternator is £189+VAT. He also said that it might not fix the problem and that other parts might have been damaged by the overcharging.
He also said that the dephaser problem CAN cause starting problems.
I said that I need to think about it and will call him back today.
Any thought ?!?
steveo3002 said:
overcharging isnt right, but i cant see it being the cause of non starting
The alternator will not cause intermittent not start.They sound like they don't know what they are doing.
Crank sensor and or camshaft sensor is the next thing they should change alternator will not stop it from starting.
They said that the cambelts can take a 'set' and if removed and refitted for the dephaser pulley replacement, and so it might not last long before failure. They only suggested the cambelt replacement. Considering the implications of a cambelt failure (broken engine), I made that call and accepted their suggestion.
I don't know if their is any truth in the risk of belt failure but that isn't the main focus of my attention now.
Just to repeat, my receipt states: “investigate problem with running and bad starting. Fault diagnosed to be dephaser fault and vvt control module. …fixed…etc”. They were confident enough to state that in writing but now say that anything might have been damaged by overcharging. So I don't know where the end of this problem will be.
Car cost me £2000 from a second hand dealer, in March.
Thanks again, your comments/suggestions are all very helpful
I don't know if their is any truth in the risk of belt failure but that isn't the main focus of my attention now.
Just to repeat, my receipt states: “investigate problem with running and bad starting. Fault diagnosed to be dephaser fault and vvt control module. …fixed…etc”. They were confident enough to state that in writing but now say that anything might have been damaged by overcharging. So I don't know where the end of this problem will be.
Car cost me £2000 from a second hand dealer, in March.
Thanks again, your comments/suggestions are all very helpful
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