Ambulance driver training?
Discussion
Now, no offence is intended to ANY resident Ambo drivers, but I've been wondering lately what sort of training they recieve.
The other week I had an incident on Watford ring road. 4 lanes, with 1,2 and 3 blocked waiting at traffic lights, lane 4 is clear. Ambo appears behind us, seemingly trying to squeeze between lanes 2 and 3. I'm sat at the back of lane 3, with the Ambo driver giving the full shebang of sirens and extra horn. Eventually, after realising that the driver is intent on splitting the lanes, I pull into lane 4, at the same exact time that Ambo driver decides the clear lane 4 is a good idea. By this time the lights have changed, but everyone is still looking behind trying to figure out what the hell this Ambo is doing.
I end up booting it off in lane 4 with Ambo following. I then move over to lane 3 and ease off for Ambo to pass, and they follow me into lane 3, then almost went into my rear as I let off. Now, I know the hospital is the next exit off the ring road, so the Ambo wants to move across to lane 1 to exit. But does Ambo driver move over to lane 1? No they force their way around and then try to exit from lane 3.
When they finally passed me, I got a head shake from the passanger.
Why didn't they take lane 4 initially and avoid the entire incident?
Why follow me into lane 3 and not pass me when it's quite obvious in trying to help them pass?
I've just witnessed an Ambo come hurtling at a red, with only blues on, no sirens, have to perform an emergency stop when the civi on the green light didn't see them and carried on a usual.
Why didn't they have sirens on approaching a busy red light at speed?
The other week I had an incident on Watford ring road. 4 lanes, with 1,2 and 3 blocked waiting at traffic lights, lane 4 is clear. Ambo appears behind us, seemingly trying to squeeze between lanes 2 and 3. I'm sat at the back of lane 3, with the Ambo driver giving the full shebang of sirens and extra horn. Eventually, after realising that the driver is intent on splitting the lanes, I pull into lane 4, at the same exact time that Ambo driver decides the clear lane 4 is a good idea. By this time the lights have changed, but everyone is still looking behind trying to figure out what the hell this Ambo is doing.
I end up booting it off in lane 4 with Ambo following. I then move over to lane 3 and ease off for Ambo to pass, and they follow me into lane 3, then almost went into my rear as I let off. Now, I know the hospital is the next exit off the ring road, so the Ambo wants to move across to lane 1 to exit. But does Ambo driver move over to lane 1? No they force their way around and then try to exit from lane 3.
When they finally passed me, I got a head shake from the passanger.
Why didn't they take lane 4 initially and avoid the entire incident?
Why follow me into lane 3 and not pass me when it's quite obvious in trying to help them pass?
I've just witnessed an Ambo come hurtling at a red, with only blues on, no sirens, have to perform an emergency stop when the civi on the green light didn't see them and carried on a usual.
Why didn't they have sirens on approaching a busy red light at speed?
Edited by FussyFez on Saturday 22 November 16:44
Edited by FussyFez on Saturday 22 November 16:45
They are human.
They will get it right the majority of the time.
But... other times... they won't get it right.
No one has posted up - "Ambulance drivers do the right thing."
I'd cut them some slack.
We all think we are above average drivers - but we all have had situations we didn't handle really well.
They will get it right the majority of the time.
But... other times... they won't get it right.
No one has posted up - "Ambulance drivers do the right thing."
I'd cut them some slack.
We all think we are above average drivers - but we all have had situations we didn't handle really well.
Again, absolutely no offence intended - my hat goes off completely to all emergency services, but I've always got the impression Ambulance drivers are paramedics and medical professionals first, with a lesser but obviously important aspect of the job to be skilled response drivers. In turn, some will enjoy this aspect and be keen to hone their skills, others less so hence the occasionally questionable driving standards mentioned by the OP. In contrast with Police, who I think often have a healthy dose of petrolhead to want to become traffic / pursuit / even standard panda car blues drivers.
My uncle was a paramedic, and seem to remember stories of quite a lot of training, although this would be early 90s I guess - he took me for a tear round the ambulance station block in one of his Merc Sprinters and he could certainly hustle it around, but then he is a definite petrolhead.
Then a few years ago I had a brief chat with a girl who was an Ambulance driver, and I didn't get the impression the driving side of the training was that impressive these days, something like 4 weeks? I remember she used to dread blue light runs up to and into London.
My uncle was a paramedic, and seem to remember stories of quite a lot of training, although this would be early 90s I guess - he took me for a tear round the ambulance station block in one of his Merc Sprinters and he could certainly hustle it around, but then he is a definite petrolhead.
Then a few years ago I had a brief chat with a girl who was an Ambulance driver, and I didn't get the impression the driving side of the training was that impressive these days, something like 4 weeks? I remember she used to dread blue light runs up to and into London.
Edited by vrsmxtb on Saturday 22 November 17:34
Edited by vrsmxtb on Saturday 22 November 17:43
The fact that I can still use my left hand is in no small part due to the care that I received from the West Midlands Ambulance Service after I had a nasty accident last year. I was initially taken to the local hospital but had to be transferred to a regional specialist centre and in both cases the ambulance was driven with the utmost skill and care. Remember that an ambulance will often have a patient inside who is hooked up to sophisticated medical equipment and you will realise that they have to drive smoothly as well as carving their way through the traffic safely and as quickly as possible. From my experience there are no better drivers than emergency ambulance ones; the fact that they are also fully trained paramedics makes them remarkable people indeed.
Ok, I'll bite...
The driver training I did was the IHCD (Edexcel) D1/D2 course and lasted 3 weeks. Plenty available on google to read up on if you're interested. Much of the course is based on the police roadcraft system IIRC. It was pretty tiring but good fun and included night driving, a skid pan session and of course emergency blue light runs. My driving experience prior to that was 12 years and the best part of 500,000 miles - I thought I was pretty handy behind the wheel. A few days into the course and I realised I had a lot to learn.
Of course we don't always get it right and standards can vary between drivers but running on lights without horns at a junction is pretty unforgivable IMHO. However the concentration required for driving on blues, especially through city traffic is demanding and we do this day in, day out.
As a comparison, I have a few friends in the police, they don't quite believe the amount of emergency driving the ambulances actually do.
Expert driver with a knowledge of cardiology, obstetrics, paediatrics, trauma management, social worker and licensed to prescribe quite a few drugs... Not to mention the ability to care for a sick patient in the back of a vehicle, sometimes moving at speed.
Jeez, I'm definitely underpaid!!
The driver training I did was the IHCD (Edexcel) D1/D2 course and lasted 3 weeks. Plenty available on google to read up on if you're interested. Much of the course is based on the police roadcraft system IIRC. It was pretty tiring but good fun and included night driving, a skid pan session and of course emergency blue light runs. My driving experience prior to that was 12 years and the best part of 500,000 miles - I thought I was pretty handy behind the wheel. A few days into the course and I realised I had a lot to learn.
Of course we don't always get it right and standards can vary between drivers but running on lights without horns at a junction is pretty unforgivable IMHO. However the concentration required for driving on blues, especially through city traffic is demanding and we do this day in, day out.
As a comparison, I have a few friends in the police, they don't quite believe the amount of emergency driving the ambulances actually do.
Expert driver with a knowledge of cardiology, obstetrics, paediatrics, trauma management, social worker and licensed to prescribe quite a few drugs... Not to mention the ability to care for a sick patient in the back of a vehicle, sometimes moving at speed.
Jeez, I'm definitely underpaid!!
Thanks alot for the replies.
Obviously I realise that many an Ambo on blues will have a critical patient on board, that wasn't my point.
Thankyou to the paramedic that replied, this is what I was looking for.
Considering what has been said, and that there is a selection of Ambo drivers that aren't quite as interested in the actual response driving side of things, therfore letting standards slip slightly, do we think that response driver training could be stepped up for paramedics?
I shall look into the mentioned driving qualifications and what they entail.
I'm a professional driver myself, and I pride myself on driving to a high standard, so to witness such bemusing behaviour from apparently professional response drivers is annoying to say the least.
But yes, we are all only human after all.
Obviously I realise that many an Ambo on blues will have a critical patient on board, that wasn't my point.
Thankyou to the paramedic that replied, this is what I was looking for.
Considering what has been said, and that there is a selection of Ambo drivers that aren't quite as interested in the actual response driving side of things, therfore letting standards slip slightly, do we think that response driver training could be stepped up for paramedics?
I shall look into the mentioned driving qualifications and what they entail.
I'm a professional driver myself, and I pride myself on driving to a high standard, so to witness such bemusing behaviour from apparently professional response drivers is annoying to say the least.
But yes, we are all only human after all.
The IHCD/edexcel course fattyfat describes is wha has been the standard for road staff in the NHS for many years - the millar report in 1967 set the foundations for what is now the technician course . ( there are stories of foreshortened course for managers from none road staff backgrounds and BASICS docs who wanted blues and noise, also Roger era Staffs Community responders were driving around on blues with minimal training)
Officially St John Ambulance were training to that standard since 1999 for it's response drivers although in some places there were emergency driving 'bans' prior to 2012 because the management in the old structure wouldn't pay for training and a few counties were allowing people to respond with rather less training, however, since the restructure in 2012 the edexcel course is the standard and the only way to APL the response course is with police response/EFAD and passign the assessments , although 'operational' can be APLed with 'civilian' advanced driving cert + passing the assessment.
there's been some gnashing of teeth from NHS ambulancestaff that they had to do the assessments for SJA ... but this is typical of the unfortunate arrogance that still persists among 'trained' technicians and paramedics and demonstrates their lack of understanding of the wider regulatory position.
Not sure what the current state of play is for Red Cross
Road Safety Act 2006 is a red herring as
a)only covered speed exemptions
b) required secondary legislation which was never done
PUWER and Corporate manslaughter however could bite individuals and management.
there are suggestions and stories of some of the private operators providing very little training to staff employed as 'emergency care assistants' but a lot of this is anecdote.
There has also been a spate of recruitment in the NHS for driver trainers to provide an increased capability to do periodic requalification / re validation assessments to maintain standards, as not that long ago if you avoided blameworthy crashes it was possible to avoid getting your driving reassessed for decades ...
Officially St John Ambulance were training to that standard since 1999 for it's response drivers although in some places there were emergency driving 'bans' prior to 2012 because the management in the old structure wouldn't pay for training and a few counties were allowing people to respond with rather less training, however, since the restructure in 2012 the edexcel course is the standard and the only way to APL the response course is with police response/EFAD and passign the assessments , although 'operational' can be APLed with 'civilian' advanced driving cert + passing the assessment.
there's been some gnashing of teeth from NHS ambulancestaff that they had to do the assessments for SJA ... but this is typical of the unfortunate arrogance that still persists among 'trained' technicians and paramedics and demonstrates their lack of understanding of the wider regulatory position.
Not sure what the current state of play is for Red Cross
Road Safety Act 2006 is a red herring as
a)only covered speed exemptions
b) required secondary legislation which was never done
PUWER and Corporate manslaughter however could bite individuals and management.
there are suggestions and stories of some of the private operators providing very little training to staff employed as 'emergency care assistants' but a lot of this is anecdote.
There has also been a spate of recruitment in the NHS for driver trainers to provide an increased capability to do periodic requalification / re validation assessments to maintain standards, as not that long ago if you avoided blameworthy crashes it was possible to avoid getting your driving reassessed for decades ...
Edited by mph1977 on Saturday 22 November 19:35
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