Is the ARDS test worthwhile for track day drivers?
Discussion
Not in my opinion. The ARDS test is simply to establish whether you can be "trusted" to be sharing a track with other drivers in a race situation. It's more about awareness than how good you are at taking a corner, etc. The theory section tests your knowledge of the Blue Book's circuit racing regulations.
TheArchitect said:
looking at ways to get more experience on track and whilst I certainly cannot afford to go racing I quite like the idea of doing my ARDS test to help with my track driving.
Is it worthwhile doing as a way to get some more knowledge and experience?
The ARDS course isn't a good value for money way of improving your track driving. As others have said, getting an instructor for the full day is more efficient way of shortcutting the learning curve.Is it worthwhile doing as a way to get some more knowledge and experience?
The only 2 reasons you might consider getting your race licence without the intention of racing are:-
1) So you can attend test days instead of/as well as track days. You can get an element of competition (against yourself/the clock) and a measure of improvement over time. Also overtaking either side etc
2) You can tell all your mates down the pub that you have a race licence, if you're that way inclined.
Jonny
BaT
TheArchitect said:
I guess I expected to learn more race craft from the arts test than you do, it's seems to be more theory and awareness based than getting faster lap times.
What you need is one or more days with a race coach - not a track day instructor. I can recommend Malcolm Edeson, who is a very experienced racer too and has coached many a driver to success, especially in Toyota MR2s and Lotus Elises.TheArchitect said:
I'll have a look at the cat courses for the end of the summer as they look quite good.
Colin and Jo are wonderful people and Colin is a superb coach because he listens and explains *why* as much as *how*. The courses aren't cheap, I'll admit, but you'll learn a lot.Chris.
spyderman8 said:
Why Jonny? Because it would lead the driver to making moves on track days they would be against track day rules?
Partly, but also because in my experience, a "track-day" instructor just wants to improve someone's driving, keep them safe, not cause any grief for anyone else and generally doesn't have an agenda other than earning a living."Race coaches" can be more focused on outright pace (sometimes to the detriment of driving standards in my experience), often have agendas (pushing track day drivers to go racing when they are neither capable or prepared to do so) and are often just looking for the next meal-ticket to go racing themselves.
It's incredibly rare for a track-day instructor to be in a gravel trap (or worse, a tyre wall). However, it's far too common for "race coaches" to be sat in gravel traps where they've pushed the driver beyond his ability. Don't even get me started on the data-chasers!
Edited to add: I also find a few of the "race coaches" can be quite impatient with novices - they are used to dealing much quicker drivers and often lack the patience and empathy with drivers at the other end of the learning curve.
This isn't based on any particular gripe or vendetta by the way, based purely on my experiences over the years. Unless you're actually testing/racing and hunting those last tenths of a second (which you can't do on a track day anyway), a decent/experienced (Grade 'A') track day instructor is more than enough. There's absolutely no need to waste hundreds/thousands on a big-name race coach.
I'm friends with a lot of the "race coaches" that will be offended by these comments, but i'm afraid I can't sit around and watch the "mere track-day instructors" get a slating when they are, in many ways, far more competent/fit for purpose.
/2p
Jonny
BaT
Edited by jonnyleroux on Sunday 30th November 21:36
spyderman8 said:
Points taken. I'll STFU - regardless of the fact I didn't slate anyone.
yep - sorry - it was just the inferrence that a race coach would be better when, in my experience, for a track day client, they are not.a good analogy would be insisting on an tornado fighter jet pilot to fly you to amsterdam with on a KLM Airbus. if you have no intention of entering into combat, the commercial pilot is far more suitable :-)
/slightly tongue-in-cheek but you get my point!
Jonny
BaT
jonnyleroux said:
a good analogy would be insisting on an tornado fighter jet pilot to fly you to amsterdam with on a KLM Airbus. if you have no intention of entering into combat, the commercial pilot is far more suitable :-)
Oh don't - I'm bad enough on a plane as it is. You have to wonder what the first few commercial flights of ex-military pilots are like!jonnyleroux said:
spyderman8 said:
Why Jonny? Because it would lead the driver to making moves on track days they would be against track day rules?
Partly, but also because in my experience, a "track-day" instructor just wants to improve someone's driving, keep them safe, not cause any grief for anyone else and generally doesn't have an agenda other than earning a living."Race coaches" can be more focused on outright pace (sometimes to the detriment of driving standards in my experience), often have agendas (pushing track day drivers to go racing when they are neither capable or prepared to do so) and are often just looking for the next meal-ticket to go racing themselves.
It's incredibly rare for a track-day instructor to be in a gravel trap (or worse, a tyre wall). However, it's far too common for "race coaches" to be sat in gravel traps where they've pushed the driver beyond his ability. Don't even get me started on the data-chasers!
Edited to add: I also find a few of the "race coaches" can be quite impatient with novices - they are used to dealing much quicker drivers and often lack the patience and empathy with drivers at the other end of the learning curve.
This isn't based on any particular gripe or vendetta by the way, based purely on my experiences over the years. Unless you're actually testing/racing and hunting those last tenths of a second (which you can't do on a track day anyway), a decent/experienced (Grade 'A') track day instructor is more than enough. There's absolutely no need to waste hundreds/thousands on a big-name race coach.
I'm friends with a lot of the "race coaches" that will be offended by these comments, but i'm afraid I can't sit around and watch the "mere track-day instructors" get a slating when they are, in many ways, far more competent/fit for purpose.
/2p
Jonny
BaT
Edited by jonnyleroux on Sunday 30th November 21:36
ginettajoe said:
The biggest load of drivel I have ever read!!! A decent driver coach will work with a pupil at the level appropriate to his or her experience, not teach basic brake, off brakes, turn, power, but will explain the physics of moving a piece of metal (or plastic) around a piece of tarmac, and go into detail of weight transfer, how to control it, and how to achieve the optimum from tyre performance, and will not end up in the gravel trap!!! Of course, there are some people that will never be capable of differentiating between one or the other!!!
Well, I'll agree with you that a good coach will work with the pupil that they have, but overall I'd agree with Johnny. It's a question of what you ask the instructor to do for you. If you hire him as a track day instructor then his aim is to get you driving well on a track day and enjoying yourself. If you hire him as a race instructor then his aim is to get every last tenth of a second off your lap time, make you able to get past the guy in front, and help you stop the guy behind getting past. I think we've all met drivers like that on track days and it's not conducive to a fun day. In the words of a race instructor who was trying to get me to speed up generally, "As a race instructor, I should be spending most of my time a little bit scared of what's about to happen. With you driving, I feel safe."
Some instructors can probably do both. As ever, the key is to be clear with them what you want from them.
ginettajoe said:
A decent driver coach will work with a pupil at the level appropriate to his or her experience, not teach basic brake, off brakes, turn, power, but will explain the physics of moving a piece of metal (or plastic) around a piece of tarmac, and go into detail of weight transfer, how to control it, and how to achieve the optimum from tyre performance
Any grade 'A' ARDS instructor worth their salt should be capable of doing all of that. We only employ grade 'A' ARDS instructors to instruct on our track days, so essentially we're agreeing with each other.Jonny
BaT
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