The power of branding and badges
Discussion
Hello just want to pop up a forum post that is fairly neutral, that may or may not of been covered before in such a light hearted way.
So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
I think it's the same in many other areas of life...For example look in the Hifi section and see the number of posters asking about a Bose sound system. Those in the know will scoff at the suggestion and typically recommend anything else other than Bose. Those Sunday supplement adverts must have impregnated some reader's minds, however, as many people would be impressed if you mention you own a Bose system.
Perhaps it could be same with some Apple products, but I confess that apart from having a work iPhone I don't know much about their products (and the phone was a PITA to get used to, so maybe I don't fit the typical Apple 'logic').
Your average Joe in the pub is probably going to be impressed with his neighbour's new M badged BMW diesel or S line Audi diesel too. Whether we as enthusiasts (aka anoraks to these same people) like them or not doesn't really matter, they will still sell in droves due to the association with the 'real' M or S model.
It might even be that they aren't a bad choice if your situation dictates that you have to chose a diesel model (there is NO petrol option on my company car configurator for example). Personally I tend to go for the 'comfort' option for my work car, but I have colleagues who would always chose the M sport/ S line version. Perhaps it makes them feel better or they just like the look of the bigger wheels, etc.
To be fair you do own an A3 to most people (in fact without a view of the badge I'd probably assume that myself). At least it makes it a good 'sleeper' if others think it's just standard A3.
Perhaps it could be same with some Apple products, but I confess that apart from having a work iPhone I don't know much about their products (and the phone was a PITA to get used to, so maybe I don't fit the typical Apple 'logic').
Your average Joe in the pub is probably going to be impressed with his neighbour's new M badged BMW diesel or S line Audi diesel too. Whether we as enthusiasts (aka anoraks to these same people) like them or not doesn't really matter, they will still sell in droves due to the association with the 'real' M or S model.
It might even be that they aren't a bad choice if your situation dictates that you have to chose a diesel model (there is NO petrol option on my company car configurator for example). Personally I tend to go for the 'comfort' option for my work car, but I have colleagues who would always chose the M sport/ S line version. Perhaps it makes them feel better or they just like the look of the bigger wheels, etc.
To be fair you do own an A3 to most people (in fact without a view of the badge I'd probably assume that myself). At least it makes it a good 'sleeper' if others think it's just standard A3.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 2nd December 23:42
I'm not a BMW enthusiast, but I do think they have devalued/diluted the previously exclusive M cars/brand with the M Sport badging - especially when you hear regular ads on the radio advertising the 318d M Sport at £xx a month or whatever is the latest deal...it's really just the modern incarnation of the 'i' badge on that infamous rep programme - 'From A to B' - "Astra CDXi, saloon, new shape!".
This has probably been discussed ad infinitum already on here.
This has probably been discussed ad infinitum already on here.
Edited by PlayersNo6 on Tuesday 2nd December 23:45
Edited by PlayersNo6 on Tuesday 2nd December 23:53
It's always happened.. Think about Ghia. Started off building bodies for the like of the Mille Miglia winning Alfa Romeo 6C, and ended up being a trim level on family saloons from Ford.
Or Vanden Plas, who made some beautifully bodied Bentleys and Alvis' (Alvii??) in the early days of motoring, but ended up as a badge on the Maestro among other BL dreadfulness.
Or MG..
Companies will always trade on a brand, and if they can apply that to lower level models to sell it on the prestige, then they will up till the point it becomes so diluted that it plateaus.. but by then, they'll have a new prestige brand in the works.
Or Vanden Plas, who made some beautifully bodied Bentleys and Alvis' (Alvii??) in the early days of motoring, but ended up as a badge on the Maestro among other BL dreadfulness.
Or MG..
Companies will always trade on a brand, and if they can apply that to lower level models to sell it on the prestige, then they will up till the point it becomes so diluted that it plateaus.. but by then, they'll have a new prestige brand in the works.
The power of branding dominates cars now. There was a time when different car manufacturers made very different cars - and having something from one of the 'prestige' makes really meant something. A Mercedes, Jaguar or (larger) BMW was something special which offered far more for those who could afford them. Not now; they're just 'brands' like any other.
anarki said:
Hello just want to pop up a forum post that is fairly neutral, that may or may not of been covered before in such a light hearted way.
So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
Don't see why it matters. These packages are just sport packages that have been renamed and in some cases developed by the M/AMG/S divisions. They also offer some actual changes to the dynamics (sport parameter steering, suspension). If they are developed with input from the in-house tuning arms, what is the problem? Anyone who knows what a C63 is won't be confusing it for a C class with an AMG sports pack. So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
anarki said:
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
Isn't an S3 the top of the range A3? If you were doing a Venn diagram of Audis it'd be part of the A3 subset wouldn't it?I might be wrong, I've given up with trying to keep up with marketing b
ks.Captain Muppet said:
Isn't an S3 the top of the range A3? If you were doing a Venn diagram of Audis it'd be part of the A3 subset wouldn't it?
I might be wrong, I've given up with trying to keep up with marketing bks.
Yes S3 falls under the A3 banner on the Audi website: http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a3/a3.htmlI might be wrong, I've given up with trying to keep up with marketing b
ks.RS3 would fall under the RS banner.
Captain Muppet said:
anarki said:
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
Isn't an S3 the top of the range A3? If you were doing a Venn diagram of Audis it'd be part of the A3 subset wouldn't it?I think this is the kind of stuff that doesn't really matter.
Most people in the street don't know what an M3 or and S3 is and don't care. Brand dilution only matters if that brand is one that many people apsire too and I don't think that BMW M or Audi S/RS are. The important brand bit is the BMW or the Audi bit. The M3 and the S3 are simply versions that only appeal to car enthusiasts and most drivers wouldn't want. I've spoken to a number of people recently who would not want a large engined petrol car. I suspect that BMW and Audi don't sell the bulk of the cars they do on the back of so called Halo models like the M3 and RS4.
anarki said:
Yes it's based on the A3 platform but has completely different running gear.
As I said some people see me car and point out it's an A3 in the same way they'd point at a 318d m sport and say that's an M3.
Usually non car types I admit
I'd suggest that the difference between a 318b and an M3 is far greater than the difference between an A3 tdi and an S3.As I said some people see me car and point out it's an A3 in the same way they'd point at a 318d m sport and say that's an M3.
Usually non car types I admit
Yes but surely an RS3 shares more with an A3 than it does with an RS6? It's still just branding.
Of course there's a big gap between an S3 and a A3 1.8TDI S-Line but they've blurred it by putting S-Line on everything so now they need the RS to top that in the same way that the Golf GTi was diluted by the GT and GTD brands so they now have the R on top of that and the Cooper S was diluted by the non-S Cooper and the Cooper D so now they need the Cooper Works and er.. Cooper Works GP?
But people tend to buy the most LED laden fake vented big wheeled model they can afford so it's all a bit moot.
Of course there's a big gap between an S3 and a A3 1.8TDI S-Line but they've blurred it by putting S-Line on everything so now they need the RS to top that in the same way that the Golf GTi was diluted by the GT and GTD brands so they now have the R on top of that and the Cooper S was diluted by the non-S Cooper and the Cooper D so now they need the Cooper Works and er.. Cooper Works GP?
But people tend to buy the most LED laden fake vented big wheeled model they can afford so it's all a bit moot.
Mercedes are now getting in on the act and slapping the magic ‘AMG’ badge on FWD hatchbacks and 4 cylinder diesel repmobiles (sorry : business-development-mangermobiles 
). No doubt Jaguar will follow suit with their ‘R’ badge. All these badges will eventually become so diluted as to be meaningless.
). No doubt Jaguar will follow suit with their ‘R’ badge. All these badges will eventually become so diluted as to be meaningless. anarki said:
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
I don't get the link? Apple switched to the x86 architecture because the PowerPC consortium (who manufactured the processors used in Apple's computers at the time) were unable/unwilling to build processors that could compete with Intel's desktop class processors. The fastest PowerPC processor (the G5) ran so hot that it required a server-class cooling solution, and they were never able to fit them in laptops. Apple didn't switch for marketing reasons, they switched because needed a reliable roadmap of desktop processors that PowerPC couldn't offer. I had the opposite last night, there was an E92 M3 on the motorway, the M badge had been removed from the rear. It had 4 exhausts and we were sure that only the M has 4, so I had to drive up the inside of it to check for a bonnet buldge 
it was indeed an M3.
I know of a couple of wealthy people who won't buy anything from the AMG range of Mercedes as they say "You can't tell the difference between them and the lower models" so the dilution of brands does have some drawbacks. Quite minor when compared to the amount of people who buy lowly badged up models though!
it was indeed an M3.I know of a couple of wealthy people who won't buy anything from the AMG range of Mercedes as they say "You can't tell the difference between them and the lower models" so the dilution of brands does have some drawbacks. Quite minor when compared to the amount of people who buy lowly badged up models though!
anarki said:
Hello just want to pop up a forum post that is fairly neutral, that may or may not of been covered before in such a light hearted way.
So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
Its because the "halo" M Cars and proper AMG cars, although sold in small numbers and maybe at a loss on occassions, encourage people to buy further down the range. So an "M Sport" branded car with a certain trim level can probably command a premium over the same car branded "Sport".So branding and badges, thoughts and feelings welcome please.
S-line Audi's are not S* models
M sport BMW's are not M* models
Etc, etc. Yes RS Audis aren't S* models either.
I'm very meh if someone says my car is an A3. I agree and don't bother to point out how they're wrong and what differences there are.
My wife pointed out a 320d BMW the other day approaching us slowly in a car park which had M sport badges on it, pointed to it and asked if it was an M3. I laughed and said no can't you hear the agricultural lump ticking over?
That fell on deaf ears and I have now realised that for the average Joe, owning a vehicle which portrays a sporting pedigree will 99% get away with it to the general public.
Massive respect to the marketing guys at these manufacturers, pop on a badge, upsell and profit.
Reminds me of when Apple adopted the x86 Intel architecture back in 2006/2007...
They probably have went too far down the range with it, but i guess it sells cars for them.
Bradgate said:
Mercedes are now getting in on the act and slapping the magic ‘AMG’ badge on FWD hatchbacks and 4 cylinder diesel repmobiles (sorry : business-development-mangermobiles ). No doubt Jaguar will follow suit with their ‘R’ badge. All these badges will eventually become so diluted as to be meaningless.
If the sports pack suspension and steering is developed/tweaked by AMG, isn't that a good thing? All AMG does is tune series cars (which are already decent driving machines in this case), some more some less. ). No doubt Jaguar will follow suit with their ‘R’ badge. All these badges will eventually become so diluted as to be meaningless. I guess they're happy to sell a few less up market models to rich folk who don't feel the premium model is noticeably different to the mid range ones if they sell a decent number more midrange ones to people who are happy they look almost like the up market ones. The problem comes when nobody at all buys the up market models and there's nothing for the midrange models to aspire to.
Edit: always wondered why the SLK and the SL had such a huge price difference...
Edit: always wondered why the SLK and the SL had such a huge price difference...
Edited by MDMetal on Wednesday 3rd December 15:16
Bradgate said:
No doubt Jaguar will follow suit with their ‘R’ badge. All these badges will eventually become so diluted as to be meaningless.
They already have. R-Sport has been a trim level on the XF for a while now, whereby they stick XFR side skirts, valances, firmer supsension and big bolstered seats etc to everything from the 2.2 rattler up to the proper XFR. It sits in parallel with the chromey trimmed Lux/Premium Lux and Portfolio models which are orientated towards comfort.BMW, Audi & Mercedes are in the market of selling cars, from a sales point of view surely it's a sucess in getting customers to buy more expensive cars or simply attract customers who may have gone elsewhere for sports saloons.
I have recently traded my 330D SE for a 330D M-Sport purely because the SE wasn't selling, I assume due to the colour and the fact it was a SE - the spec was definately there.
I will still sell the M-Sport later but already I'm surprised of the 'sporty' comments I've had for this whereas the SE hardly drew any comments, not to mention the difference in trade in values.
Sales sucess - yes. Personal preference, have to admit to liking this one just a little bit more.
I have recently traded my 330D SE for a 330D M-Sport purely because the SE wasn't selling, I assume due to the colour and the fact it was a SE - the spec was definately there.
I will still sell the M-Sport later but already I'm surprised of the 'sporty' comments I've had for this whereas the SE hardly drew any comments, not to mention the difference in trade in values.
Sales sucess - yes. Personal preference, have to admit to liking this one just a little bit more.
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