Nativity play photography
Discussion
I would like to get a better understanding of the rules/law of taking photos at these events.
My daughter (3yr old) is about to take part in her first nativity play at nursery and I would like to take photos. All parents have been asked to sign a form allowing photos to be taken. I don't foresee any issues and hope/expect that all parents agree to this.
However, looking at https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/schools/photos/ it would appear that there is no issues with taking pictures for 'personal use' i.e. family photo album. Therefore is the bit of paper we have just singed meaningless?
Or is it more a matter, that as the play is at the Nursery, their rules go? If they suddenly decide that no photography is the rule of the day then we have to accept this, regardless of what the ICO says?
There have also been nursery arranged events where pictures were taken of the children. Parents were asked to allow their children to be photographed and told that the pictures could be placed on the nursery walls and on social media. However, pictures of a child wouldn't be released to parents if there was another child in the photo and permission from that child's parents wasn't obtained. Again, would the ICO statement, allow a parent to request the photo of their child, even if another child was in the picture without any other permissions being sought.
Just looking to get a better understanding for now and then later on for at school, as i find so many people hide behind the words Data Protection these days.
My daughter (3yr old) is about to take part in her first nativity play at nursery and I would like to take photos. All parents have been asked to sign a form allowing photos to be taken. I don't foresee any issues and hope/expect that all parents agree to this.
However, looking at https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/schools/photos/ it would appear that there is no issues with taking pictures for 'personal use' i.e. family photo album. Therefore is the bit of paper we have just singed meaningless?
Or is it more a matter, that as the play is at the Nursery, their rules go? If they suddenly decide that no photography is the rule of the day then we have to accept this, regardless of what the ICO says?
There have also been nursery arranged events where pictures were taken of the children. Parents were asked to allow their children to be photographed and told that the pictures could be placed on the nursery walls and on social media. However, pictures of a child wouldn't be released to parents if there was another child in the photo and permission from that child's parents wasn't obtained. Again, would the ICO statement, allow a parent to request the photo of their child, even if another child was in the picture without any other permissions being sought.
Just looking to get a better understanding for now and then later on for at school, as i find so many people hide behind the words Data Protection these days.
Good question, and my opinion (not much use perhaps) is that if it were me I'd just see what happens on the day, on a 'when in Rome' basis.
What is a fact is that you are on private property, so they could ask you to leave etc.
I would be wary of 'making a scene' and getting embroiled in an argument on what is meant to be a nice event, but I can also imagine there being a lot of camera phone action, which appears to be 'ok' through ignorance, but as soon as you wheel out a 'proper' camera then that is when the problems potentially start.
Again, just my thoughts, but if you feel really strongly about taking photos of your daughter, then get there early and have a chat with whoever is in charge, and see from there.
Or better still, ring them up in the daytime. You might be able to get a better spot that way, with the school's blessing, and maybe offer to supply them with photos from the night.
Potentially, everyone wins.
What is a fact is that you are on private property, so they could ask you to leave etc.
I would be wary of 'making a scene' and getting embroiled in an argument on what is meant to be a nice event, but I can also imagine there being a lot of camera phone action, which appears to be 'ok' through ignorance, but as soon as you wheel out a 'proper' camera then that is when the problems potentially start.
Again, just my thoughts, but if you feel really strongly about taking photos of your daughter, then get there early and have a chat with whoever is in charge, and see from there.
Or better still, ring them up in the daytime. You might be able to get a better spot that way, with the school's blessing, and maybe offer to supply them with photos from the night.
Potentially, everyone wins.
hab1966 said:
Or is it more a matter, that as the play is at the Nursery, their rules go? If they suddenly decide that no photography is the rule of the day then we have to accept this, regardless of what the ICO says?
This. Specific safeguarding matters take precedent over general privacy concerns.To work within safeguarding issues at my littlun's primary school there's one photographer goes in and shoots the Nativity dress rehearsal. Pics are handed over to the school who then filter out any images featuring the (unidentified) children subject to safeguarding orders. Images are then made available in time for parents to order at the real performances.
Parents are not allowed to use their own cameras during the show and everyone enjoys it that bit more as they're paying full attention and can actually see without craning around multiple iPads.
AndWhyNot said:
To work within safeguarding issues at my littlun's primary school there's one photographer goes in and shoots the Nativity dress rehearsal. Pics are handed over to the school who then filter out any images featuring the (unidentified) children subject to safeguarding orders. Images are then made available in time for parents to order at the real performances.
So we have all the parents - well the men I presume - as suspected PDFiles - but they are then allowed to take their children back to their home!!! How can Society allow this?It all shows what a ridiculous nonsense this is.
Simpo Two said:
So we have all the parents - well the men I presume - as suspected PDFiles - but they are then allowed to take their children back to their home!!! How can Society allow this?
It all shows what a ridiculous nonsense this is.
There's been no mention of filth/ abuse/ wrongdoing from anyone in the audience but modern safeguarding goes much further than that.It all shows what a ridiculous nonsense this is.
One of the things I think doesn't help is that the first rule of safeguarding- as with fight club- is that you don't talk about safeguarding. That is, I know there are children in the school who fall within specific safeguarding measures but I don't know who or why.
MrsWhyNot, a teacher, has suggested that a likely scenario is where one or more child is in care or fostered/ adopted and there's somehow a threat to the child (or carers) if the biological parents discover the child's current location- very easily done with social media.
AndWhyNot said:
One of the things I think doesn't help is that the first rule of safeguarding- as with fight club- is that you don't talk about safeguarding. That is, I know there are children in the school who fall within specific safeguarding measures but I don't know who or why.
MrsWhyNot, a teacher, has suggested that a likely scenario is where one or more child is in care or fostered/ adopted and there's somehow a threat to the child (or carers) if the biological parents discover the child's current location- very easily done with social media.
I was sat next to someone in a nativity play earlier who is in that position. Their adoptive daughter is originally from a town ~15 miles away and will have extended family all over the area. Their solution was for her to have a part and a costume that included a face mask.MrsWhyNot, a teacher, has suggested that a likely scenario is where one or more child is in care or fostered/ adopted and there's somehow a threat to the child (or carers) if the biological parents discover the child's current location- very easily done with social media.
AndWhyNot said:
To work within safeguarding issues at my littlun's primary school there's one photographer goes in and shoots the Nativity dress rehearsal. Pics are handed over to the school who then filter out any images featuring the (unidentified) children subject to safeguarding orders. Images are then made available in time for parents to order at the real performances.
Sounds like an excuse to top up the school coffers to be honest.I went to my boys nativity earlier, got a couple a snaps on my phone then put it away. They were happy for us to take photos but asked for them not to go up on social media, probably for the reasons that AWN has posted.
There are photos and video of the kids on their website though, including my 4 year old whittling a piece of wood with a knife
There are photos and video of the kids on their website though, including my 4 year old whittling a piece of wood with a knife
hab1966 said:
I would like to get a better understanding of the rules/law of taking photos at these events.
My daughter (3yr old) is about to take part in her first nativity play at nursery and I would like to take photos. All parents have been asked to sign a form allowing photos to be taken. I don't foresee any issues and hope/expect that all parents agree to this.
However, looking at https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/schools/photos/ it would appear that there is no issues with taking pictures for 'personal use' i.e. family photo album. Therefore is the bit of paper we have just singed meaningless?
Or is it more a matter, that as the play is at the Nursery, their rules go? If they suddenly decide that no photography is the rule of the day then we have to accept this, regardless of what the ICO says?
There have also been nursery arranged events where pictures were taken of the children. Parents were asked to allow their children to be photographed and told that the pictures could be placed on the nursery walls and on social media. However, pictures of a child wouldn't be released to parents if there was another child in the photo and permission from that child's parents wasn't obtained. Again, would the ICO statement, allow a parent to request the photo of their child, even if another child was in the picture without any other permissions being sought.
Just looking to get a better understanding for now and then later on for at school, as i find so many people hide behind the words Data Protection these days.
There are three separate factors at work here: My daughter (3yr old) is about to take part in her first nativity play at nursery and I would like to take photos. All parents have been asked to sign a form allowing photos to be taken. I don't foresee any issues and hope/expect that all parents agree to this.
However, looking at https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/schools/photos/ it would appear that there is no issues with taking pictures for 'personal use' i.e. family photo album. Therefore is the bit of paper we have just singed meaningless?
Or is it more a matter, that as the play is at the Nursery, their rules go? If they suddenly decide that no photography is the rule of the day then we have to accept this, regardless of what the ICO says?
There have also been nursery arranged events where pictures were taken of the children. Parents were asked to allow their children to be photographed and told that the pictures could be placed on the nursery walls and on social media. However, pictures of a child wouldn't be released to parents if there was another child in the photo and permission from that child's parents wasn't obtained. Again, would the ICO statement, allow a parent to request the photo of their child, even if another child was in the picture without any other permissions being sought.
Just looking to get a better understanding for now and then later on for at school, as i find so many people hide behind the words Data Protection these days.
First, when you enter someone else's property, you play by their rules. The nursery could, for example, have a rule that says you can't come in to watch the play unless you're dressed like Father Christmas. Their property, their rules. So if they say you can or can't take photos of the play, or video it, that's their prerogative.
Second, once you've got permission to take photos of the play, there's the question of whether if you do so, a parent of a child you photograph has a right to object to you taking the photo or using it. Generally speaking subjects of photographs don't have a right to control the use of the photographs unless they contract for that right. Paparazzi make a good living this way.
Third, there's the question of whether there is some overarching restriction on you using the photo, eg data protection. That ICO page is pretty careful about what it *doesn't* say - eg can you take a photo of the cast and post it on the internet? I'm doubtful that a photo of a child in a school play, with nothing more, amounts to personal data protected by the Act (think paps again), but I would imagine that the consent form that the school has put out is intended to cover its arse (and yours) just in case it does.
budfox said:
It's all quite ridiculous but schools really do love to peddle this nonsense. Why stop anyone taking photos at a nativity play when that anyone with a camera can stand outside a school all day long, and take any amount of photos of any amount of children?
The chances are, it's f
k all to do with peados to be honest.It's more likely that there are kids at the school that may well be under some sort of protection - taken into care, moved away from an abusive parent or whatever & they don't want people taking photos & putting them all over Facebook / Twitter etc so they could potentially be seen.
My sons school records the nativity play / carol concert onto DVD which we can buy for about £5. They do 2 performances - one in the afternoon and one in the evening. They record the one in the evening & any kids which they don't want to be seen only do the afternoon performance.
If people actually asked the school why they have certain rules in place then there would be less outrage in this world.
budfox said:
It's all quite ridiculous but schools really do love to peddle this nonsense. Why stop anyone taking photos at a nativity play when that anyone with a camera can stand outside a school all day long, and take any amount of photos of any amount of children?
Also, good luck standing outside a school all day long taking pictures of children. Pretty sure the "it's a free world innit" defence will work wonders.Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff