TWINSPARK VARIATOR
Discussion
The 156 2.0 TS I bought recently had a new cambelt fitted before I bought it but the variator was not changed. Problem - despite being in the vehicle design industry for 30+ years, I don't know what a variator is!
What does it do? How does it fail? What are the consequences of failure? My engine makes a continuous 'rushing' noise which could be a dry or worn bearing but might equally be belt noise. It's done 59k miles, 1998 model.
I am loath to book it into a dealer or specialist who will undoubtedly replace everything just to be on the safe side (and I don't blame them for that) but charge me several hundred squids for the privelege.
Help and advice to an ignorant owner please!
What does it do? How does it fail? What are the consequences of failure? My engine makes a continuous 'rushing' noise which could be a dry or worn bearing but might equally be belt noise. It's done 59k miles, 1998 model.
I am loath to book it into a dealer or specialist who will undoubtedly replace everything just to be on the safe side (and I don't blame them for that) but charge me several hundred squids for the privelege.
Help and advice to an ignorant owner please!
The variator is a spring loaded oil pressure chamber with a helical gear. It is mounted between the inlet camshaft and its drive pulley. It varies the inlet cam timing relative to the drive pulley, and hence crankshaft position.
When the variator wears, the first signs are a diesel type rattle mostly at idle speed. This will tend to subside if the engine speed then exceeds approximately 1700rpm. As it wears, the noise will get worse.
I have not yet heard of a worn variator breaking and damaging an engine. I'm sure the rattle is purely caused by wear in the gears in the variator.
I would firstly ensure that the multi V pulleys for the auxilliary drive belt are clean (with a wire brush) and free of rubber particles from the belt. Then do the same with the belt or fit a new belt and see if this cures the noise.
>> Edited by Alfa Mad on Thursday 6th January 21:58
When the variator wears, the first signs are a diesel type rattle mostly at idle speed. This will tend to subside if the engine speed then exceeds approximately 1700rpm. As it wears, the noise will get worse.
I have not yet heard of a worn variator breaking and damaging an engine. I'm sure the rattle is purely caused by wear in the gears in the variator.
I would firstly ensure that the multi V pulleys for the auxilliary drive belt are clean (with a wire brush) and free of rubber particles from the belt. Then do the same with the belt or fit a new belt and see if this cures the noise.
>> Edited by Alfa Mad on Thursday 6th January 21:58
pwig said:
The variator is to do with the Variable valve timing, when it is going your engine will start to sound like a diesel, and if it goes (which normally does take a while) It can cause alot of damage.
Typical bloody service manager/assistant etc. Variators do not break, they wear and they do not cause damage to the Engine, they simply reduce fuel consumption and performance. I don't know what are you like Pwig.
I know all of this because I too have the same problem and have done extensive research into the problem.
I have actually heard that there were two types of variator fitted to 98-00 156's, one was faulty and the other not. If you push them, apparently some dealersips will change FOC, is this right Pwig
sixpot said:
The variator is to do with the Variable valve timing, when it is going your engine will start to sound like a diesel, and if it goes (which normally does take a while) It can cause alot of damage.
Typical bloody service manager/assistant etc. Variators do not break, they wear and they do not cause damage to the Engine, they simply reduce fuel consumption and performance. I don't know what are you like Pwig.
I know all of this because I too have the same problem and have done extensive research into the problem.
I have actually heard that there were two types of variator fitted to 98-00 156's, one was faulty and the other not. If you push them, apparently some dealersips will change FOC, is this right Pwig
Regarding you first point, I did some asking today, and you are correct.
Secondly, there is nothing about the faulty variator that I have heard of.
pwig said:
pwig said:
The variator is to do with the Variable valve timing, when it is going your engine will start to sound like a diesel, and if it goes (which normally does take a while) It can cause alot of damage.
Typical bloody service manager/assistant etc. Variators do not break, they wear and they do not cause damage to the Engine, they simply reduce fuel consumption and performance. I don't know what are you like Pwig.
I know all of this because I too have the same problem and have done extensive research into the problem.
I have actually heard that there were two types of variator fitted to 98-00 156's, one was faulty and the other not. If you push them, apparently some dealersips will change FOC, is this right Pwig
Regarding you first point, I did some asking today, and you are correct.
Secondly, there is nothing about the faulty variator that I have heard of.
Any ideas on replacement cost Pwig?
sixpot said:
sixpot said:
pwig said:
The variator is to do with the Variable valve timing, when it is going your engine will start to sound like a diesel, and if it goes (which normally does take a while) It can cause alot of damage.
Typical bloody service manager/assistant etc. Variators do not break, they wear and they do not cause damage to the Engine, they simply reduce fuel consumption and performance. I don't know what are you like Pwig.
I know all of this because I too have the same problem and have done extensive research into the problem.
I have actually heard that there were two types of variator fitted to 98-00 156's, one was faulty and the other not. If you push them, apparently some dealersips will change FOC, is this right Pwig
Regarding you first point, I did some asking today, and you are correct.
Secondly, there is nothing about the faulty variator that I have heard of.
Any ideas on replacement cost Pwig?
Of what, the variator?
Alfa Mad said:
Last variator I fitted was £68+vat.
Last 1.8 156 which had a belt+tensioner+variator totalled £332.
Last 145 QV which had the same + balance belt etc totalled £418 (inclusive of labour and vat).
£68.00+vat? Bloody hell that's cheap.....Is it necessary to have the following, which is what I have been quoted
1-camshaft drive belt - £24.74
2-cam belt tensioner - £70.00
3-balance drive belt - £61.63
4-balance belt tensioner - £35.06
5-variator - £89.41
Labour charges - £112.00
Well, there is more to it than the £68+ vat. That's why I used two examples to give the likely charges an owner would face.
Perhaps its not strictly necessary to do all of it, but it would be inadvisable. For peace of mind and a decent warranty, I would do the lot.
BTW, another mech in a local garage had a busted variator belt in his 155 for ages before it unfortunately dislodged and took the cam belt with it!
He thought the balance shafts didn't make that much difference, but given my position, I couldn't recommend ommitting the balance belt. I think it would likely make the 2 litre engine a little more boomy than the 1.8 when at high engine speed. I can't see it making much difference other than that.
Perhaps its not strictly necessary to do all of it, but it would be inadvisable. For peace of mind and a decent warranty, I would do the lot.
BTW, another mech in a local garage had a busted variator belt in his 155 for ages before it unfortunately dislodged and took the cam belt with it!
He thought the balance shafts didn't make that much difference, but given my position, I couldn't recommend ommitting the balance belt. I think it would likely make the 2 litre engine a little more boomy than the 1.8 when at high engine speed. I can't see it making much difference other than that.
I replaced my wife's 156 1.8 variator as a matter of course when it trashed its timing belt at 57,000. I paid about £90 for the variator and with the cam out of the head it was only a few minutes to fit - just unscrew the old one from the end of the cam and screw the new one in its place. I was also told there were 2 variators fitted to early cars. My wife's had made a bit of a diesely sound on cold mornings on a few occasions but it only lasted a few seconds each time.
I'm 99% certain they don't do any damage when they fail -just knock and stop the valve timing from varying which, in turn, makes the engine feel a bit flat and thirsty.
I'm 99% certain they don't do any damage when they fail -just knock and stop the valve timing from varying which, in turn, makes the engine feel a bit flat and thirsty.
Alfa Mad said:
He thought the balance shafts didn't make that much difference,
I had a balancer belt snap and the engine felt noticeably rougher at high revs, but performance was unaffected! I think a lot of the racing boys don't use the balancer shafts, but I would retain them for road use.
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff