Damage to diesel engine due to water and petrol
Discussion
My brand new car that was 2 weeks old was sent back to the dealer's workshop for inspection after I noticed the tachometer fluctuating when the engine was idling when first started or at the traffic lights. After inspecting, the workshop said that there was water in the diesel fuel. I only pumped about 40 litres of diesel once since I got the car and sent it for the inspection and I have confirmed with the fuel station that the diesel was not contaminated with water. Total mileage of my car is around 581 km and I filled up the diesel fuel for the first time at about 250 km and managed to drive about 330 km with the intermittent tachometer problem.
At the inspection, the workshop drained the fuel tank and cleaned it. They then filled the tank with fresh diesel from a jerry can and ran a test on my car for about 30 minutes. I was not present at that test but the mechanics said that the engine had a knocking problem and nearly stalled (which I did not notice earlier on when I had the intermittent tachometer problem). Therefore, they concluded that the problem was due to the water in the engine and not due to a manufacturing defect.
I was told by the workshop that I would have to completely replace the engine and fuel systems at MY COST as the damage is not covered by the warranty or insurance.
Now the interesting part is that several weeks after that test, I get a picture from the mechanics showing that the jerry can that was used to fill up fresh diesel for the test had the words "PETROL" marked on it! I'm wondering if there were traces of petrol in that jerry can when they topped up the diesel for the test and perhaps this could have compounded the damage to my engine. I've read that petrol in diesel causes serious problems to diesel engines.
I now suspect that:
1) my car has a manufacturing defect as water was present in the fuel tank and I only pumped diesel once and it was confirmed to have met specifications
2) the workshop compounded the damage by negligently filling up the diesel containing traces of petrol, in order to test the engine
I am surprised at the severity of the damage to the engine if it is only just water in the diesel. From what I've read online, it seems that petrol in diesel has more serious consequences than water in diesel. Does it seem likely that my engine has been damaged by the petrol more than the water?
Appreciate your comments
At the inspection, the workshop drained the fuel tank and cleaned it. They then filled the tank with fresh diesel from a jerry can and ran a test on my car for about 30 minutes. I was not present at that test but the mechanics said that the engine had a knocking problem and nearly stalled (which I did not notice earlier on when I had the intermittent tachometer problem). Therefore, they concluded that the problem was due to the water in the engine and not due to a manufacturing defect.
I was told by the workshop that I would have to completely replace the engine and fuel systems at MY COST as the damage is not covered by the warranty or insurance.
Now the interesting part is that several weeks after that test, I get a picture from the mechanics showing that the jerry can that was used to fill up fresh diesel for the test had the words "PETROL" marked on it! I'm wondering if there were traces of petrol in that jerry can when they topped up the diesel for the test and perhaps this could have compounded the damage to my engine. I've read that petrol in diesel causes serious problems to diesel engines.
I now suspect that:
1) my car has a manufacturing defect as water was present in the fuel tank and I only pumped diesel once and it was confirmed to have met specifications
2) the workshop compounded the damage by negligently filling up the diesel containing traces of petrol, in order to test the engine
I am surprised at the severity of the damage to the engine if it is only just water in the diesel. From what I've read online, it seems that petrol in diesel has more serious consequences than water in diesel. Does it seem likely that my engine has been damaged by the petrol more than the water?
Appreciate your comments
Does your car have a filler opening that only allows a diesel hose into it? I made the mistake only once of putting 7 quid of unleaded into a 08 common rail Passat and decided it was either top up with petrol or get it drained. I topped it up filly and then after another 150 miles again to dilute the petrol which is down to under 5% in the tank now. Its running perfect and in reality will make no difference.
I took that opportunity to buy a fuel angel device that ensure diesel only goes in. Afaik there is a diesel filter that doesn't allow water in but obviously that will get overloaded pretty quickly if you fill with water.
What car is it? Perhaps have it towed to another dealer or get an independent opinion on it? I would have thought an engine out of a breakers would be the way forward if not warranted. Id rather spend 1500 than 5000.
I took that opportunity to buy a fuel angel device that ensure diesel only goes in. Afaik there is a diesel filter that doesn't allow water in but obviously that will get overloaded pretty quickly if you fill with water.
What car is it? Perhaps have it towed to another dealer or get an independent opinion on it? I would have thought an engine out of a breakers would be the way forward if not warranted. Id rather spend 1500 than 5000.
Ps it isn't traces of petrol that will make any difference. Id drive it out and take it to another dealer. Sounds like a manufacturing defect or the workshop don't know what they are talking about.
The only other thing is that you didn't let the car suck in water if you went through a flood. Bmws/Mercs are prone to this with a low intake.That would destroy the engine by hydrolocking and then bending all the conrods etc.
The only other thing is that you didn't let the car suck in water if you went through a flood. Bmws/Mercs are prone to this with a low intake.That would destroy the engine by hydrolocking and then bending all the conrods etc.
I filled up with diesel, got the receipt at the pump that proves it was diesel. I didn't drive through any floods during that period, so water couldn't have got into the engine. The strange thing is that the diesel fuel in my tank was tested when I brought it in for inspection and it was found to have water in it! Approximately,0.025% of water content versus 0.017% maximum permissible limit. So for a 60 liter tank, my engine "consumed" about 5 ml of water and there was about 10 ml of water remaining in the tank. Would 5 ml of water have caused so much damage to the engine that it needs to be replaced?
And furthermore, about 20-30 ml of water was found in the fuel pump and filter. I'm puzzled as to why there is so much water in there as well. Could there be a leak somewhere in the fuel system? The mechanics claim that there's no manufacturing defect which I refuse to accept.
And furthermore, about 20-30 ml of water was found in the fuel pump and filter. I'm puzzled as to why there is so much water in there as well. Could there be a leak somewhere in the fuel system? The mechanics claim that there's no manufacturing defect which I refuse to accept.
I fill up customers cars with diesel from a "petrol" can all the time, just cos it says petrol on it does not mean it had petrol in it at tthe time i used it? i just have more spare petrol fuel cans is all.
All fuel to some extent has water in it (fuel station dependant) you say you checked with the petrol station and they confirmed there was no water in the fuel, how? did they test the fuel tanks or just tell you ?
The thing with diesel fuel filler knecks is you can fit a petrol filler nozzle in them you just cant fit a diesel knozzle in petol filler.
IME 0.025% of water content versus 0.017% is F all and wont make a differance, i let more than that out of fuel filters all the time (most manufactrers will fit a water in fuel sensor and or a drian plug on the filter to clear it).
Water in the fuel system is not such a worry as swarf IMHO, if the system is clear of swarf you should be ok, personly i'd fit a new filter fuel and just go from there, i certainly would not fit a new engine if the one you have is running correctly at the moment.
All fuel to some extent has water in it (fuel station dependant) you say you checked with the petrol station and they confirmed there was no water in the fuel, how? did they test the fuel tanks or just tell you ?
The thing with diesel fuel filler knecks is you can fit a petrol filler nozzle in them you just cant fit a diesel knozzle in petol filler.
IME 0.025% of water content versus 0.017% is F all and wont make a differance, i let more than that out of fuel filters all the time (most manufactrers will fit a water in fuel sensor and or a drian plug on the filter to clear it).
Water in the fuel system is not such a worry as swarf IMHO, if the system is clear of swarf you should be ok, personly i'd fit a new filter fuel and just go from there, i certainly would not fit a new engine if the one you have is running correctly at the moment.
Edited by S0 What on Monday 29th December 14:03
OPs profile says Singapore.
What car is it?
If the fuel can was empty & refilled with diesel then slight traces of petrol aren't going to make any difference.
Accidentally refuelling a diesel with petrol & running it can cause damage to the seals in the fuel delivery system, but in that scenario the whole system will contain undiluted petrol. (I did this once with my Mercedes Sprinter & was lucky to get away with it).
How did you establish that the cause of the water contamination wasn't down to where you refilled? Did you obtain further samples of diesel from the same pump & have it tested? I'm assuming you didn't just take their word for it.
Is it possible that you have been the victim of malicious damage & someone has poured water into your fuel tank?
What car is it?
If the fuel can was empty & refilled with diesel then slight traces of petrol aren't going to make any difference.
Accidentally refuelling a diesel with petrol & running it can cause damage to the seals in the fuel delivery system, but in that scenario the whole system will contain undiluted petrol. (I did this once with my Mercedes Sprinter & was lucky to get away with it).
How did you establish that the cause of the water contamination wasn't down to where you refilled? Did you obtain further samples of diesel from the same pump & have it tested? I'm assuming you didn't just take their word for it.
Is it possible that you have been the victim of malicious damage & someone has poured water into your fuel tank?
I'm in Singapore and my car is a Volkswagen Touran 1.6 TDI.
The fuel station showed me the water level readings in their storage tanks on the day I pumped and the day after. There was no water in the tank on both days. Also they had records of 200 over motorists using the same pump and no one else reported a case of diesel contaminated with water. They reviewed the CCTV footage and confirmed that no one tampered with the pump. They also showed me how their water monitoring system works and I'm satisfied with the conclusion that the fuel I pumped was not contaminated.
My fuel tank flap can only be opened by pressing a button on the inside and there are no scratches on the exterior to indicate forced entry. Also the fuel cap was securely fastened by me when I pumped and I closed the flap after that.
I've not driven through floods and have operated the vehicle under normal driving conditions. Furthermore, I did not add any fuel or engine oil additives.
So the company that sold me the car says it is not a manufacturing defect but I disagree as a new car should not have such problems.
The fuel station showed me the water level readings in their storage tanks on the day I pumped and the day after. There was no water in the tank on both days. Also they had records of 200 over motorists using the same pump and no one else reported a case of diesel contaminated with water. They reviewed the CCTV footage and confirmed that no one tampered with the pump. They also showed me how their water monitoring system works and I'm satisfied with the conclusion that the fuel I pumped was not contaminated.
My fuel tank flap can only be opened by pressing a button on the inside and there are no scratches on the exterior to indicate forced entry. Also the fuel cap was securely fastened by me when I pumped and I closed the flap after that.
I've not driven through floods and have operated the vehicle under normal driving conditions. Furthermore, I did not add any fuel or engine oil additives.
So the company that sold me the car says it is not a manufacturing defect but I disagree as a new car should not have such problems.
Has it rained a lot since you bought the car?
Only say this because I did have an issue a while back on a petrol engined car where I kept getting water in the fuel - the fuel filler cap area was recessed, there was a drain pipe but it was blocked - a bad seal in the cap resulted in water getting in the tank when it rained hard as the cap sat in a bath of rain water.
Only say this because I did have an issue a while back on a petrol engined car where I kept getting water in the fuel - the fuel filler cap area was recessed, there was a drain pipe but it was blocked - a bad seal in the cap resulted in water getting in the tank when it rained hard as the cap sat in a bath of rain water.
Nope, it hardly rained during that period when I got the car until the time I noticed the problem.
But I didn't check whether the drainage outlet was blocked as the car is now sitting in the workshop. Even if it is blocked, with a secure fuel filler cap, it should prevent water from getting in. But that's a good point and I should have it checked.
Assuming if a defective fuel filler cap is the cause, shouldn't the manufacturer be responsible since that would be a manufacturing defect?
But I didn't check whether the drainage outlet was blocked as the car is now sitting in the workshop. Even if it is blocked, with a secure fuel filler cap, it should prevent water from getting in. But that's a good point and I should have it checked.
Assuming if a defective fuel filler cap is the cause, shouldn't the manufacturer be responsible since that would be a manufacturing defect?
Edited by khuan on Monday 29th December 15:02
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