Outriggers

[mickh32]

I don't know if this has been spoken about before, probably has but has anyone considered making a set of outriggers that could be bolted on rather than welded. I was in the engineering trade as a welder fabricator for years and it seems an easy(ish)job to do and would be within the capabilities of the home mechanic to replace them when needed to be done again. It would simply be a nut and bolt job. I realise that the chances of outrigger replacing will probably be a once in the life time of the car job so I ask this mainly as a discussion topic.

[Chuffmeister]

It would be tight getting in there with bolts. You would have to cut the outriggers back to close to the chassis, even then it would be difficult. This would potentially open up a lot of flexing, not to mention potential water ingress too via the holes and joints. The stiffer the chassis the better from what I've read. I'm not poo poohing the idea, just chucking a few variables in. It would be interesting if you tried it though.and came up with a workable solution.

[portzi]

I would suggest turning your attentions to making bolt on bolt off outrigger protectors. People have used tie raps, tape and silicon sealant and rubber. But a bolt solution would work better so you could take them off with ease to check outrigger then replace with using any sealants or tie raps etc !!!

[Oldred_V8S]

mickh32 said:

I don't know if this has been spoken about before, probably has but has anyone considered making a set of outriggers that could be bolted on rather than welded. I was in the engineering trade as a welder fabricator for years and it seems an easy(ish)job to do and would be within the capabilities of the home mechanic to replace them when needed to be done again. It would simply be a nut and bolt job. I realise that the chances of outrigger replacing will probably be a once in the life time of the car job so I ask this mainly as a discussion topic.

I'm liking this idea and have often thought it may be the way forward if the little gotcha's could be resolved. It would certainly make for easy maintenance of the O/R's.

[Pupp]

Was discussed in this thread and I still like the idea but has been pointed out to me more than once since (by those who would know) that the angles and measurements differ substantially from car to car such that even the prefabricated weld-on outriggers generally need significant fettling to fit properly. Would love to see it done but am now doubting viability as a 'product'

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...

[TJC46]

mickh32 said:

I don't know if this has been spoken about before, probably has but has anyone considered making a set of outriggers that could be bolted on rather than welded. I was in the engineering trade as a welder fabricator for years and it seems an easy(ish)job to do and would be within the capabilities of the home mechanic to replace them when needed to be done again. It would simply be a nut and bolt job. I realise that the chances of outrigger replacing will probably be a once in the life time of the car job so I ask this mainly as a discussion topic.

A good idea in theory. The main problem is its not just the outriggers that need attention. When your TVR is at the point of requiring new outriggers, then its very likely other areas of the chassis will also need to be repaired.
I did a complete body lift on my Chimaera, and the chassis was reasonably solid. I did replace the outriggers but on the rest of the chassis, the powder coating on every single weld had broken down and had started to rust. TVR never cleaned any of the chassis before powder coating, hence all the rust at the welds.

Cost is a major factor in outrigger repair, so i can totally understand when people just have the outriggers replaced. Best practice, if funds or D.I.Y ability will allow, is a complete body lift. And then at this point, you start to replace plenty of other "stuff" at the same time.

[Chuffmeister]

I should imagine that welding the joints onto the chassis would be difficult without lifting the body, especially the top of the weld? How do they do that? I wonder if fitting something like the outriggers below from Gregor, would it not be simpler to make a couple of small holes in the floor to allow the bolts to be slotted in from above and then bolted below? You could then make a fresh bit of glass fibre to stick over the hole you've made or seal with a patch and Sikaflex?

Bearing in mind what Pupp says about fitment, if the corner plates weren't welded in at this stage, would there be enough flex to allow the replacement bolt-on riggers to fit most chassis, with a bit of effort?

[portzi]

TJC46 said:

mickh32 said:

I don't know if this has been spoken about before, probably has but has anyone considered making a set of outriggers that could be bolted on rather than welded. I was in the engineering trade as a welder fabricator for years and it seems an easy(ish)job to do and would be within the capabilities of the home mechanic to replace them when needed to be done again. It would simply be a nut and bolt job. I realise that the chances of outrigger replacing will probably be a once in the life time of the car job so I ask this mainly as a discussion topic.

A good idea in theory. The main problem is its not just the outriggers that need attention. When your TVR is at the point of requiring new outriggers, then its very likely other areas of the chassis will also need to be repaired.
I did a complete body lift on my Chimaera, and the chassis was reasonably solid. I did replace the outriggers but on the rest of the chassis, the powder coating on every single weld had broken down and had started to rust. TVR never cleaned any of the chassis before powder coating, hence all the rust at the welds.

Cost is a major factor in outrigger repair, so i can totally understand when people just have the outriggers replaced. Best practice, if funds or D.I.Y ability will allow, is a complete body lift. And then at this point, you start to replace plenty of other "stuff" at the same time.

Basically the time and cost required to make the bolt on outrigger makes it none viable as people won't pay the extra money instead of just having new outriggers welded on institute. As mentioned above alot of the TVR chassis prep was very poor. Modern powder coats and paints with zinc spray will outlast most owners. Its a fantastic to have bolt on outriggers and if your retired or time between family and work and the resources l say go for it.

[mickh32]

I know from other experiences, that what some times seems a good idea often turns into a why did I start this. I can see some of the snags that people have mentioned and even if these were overcome how would you feel if you looked at buying a car where this had been done. This would be unconventional and I for one would be thinking that even if I was OK with the idea, would it harm the resale value or worse make it non sales worthy.

[Chuffmeister]

It depends if you found a way of doing it neatly and properly and sold a few on the cheap to see how people responded etc. Once a few have them, more would probably follow.

[ch427]

Would be a nice idea if you were able to unbolt and remove the outrigger sections from the car fairly easily to inspect/paint.

[GTRene]

don't know...I guess that will also mean a bit less rigid chassis.

[ch427]

I would guess they are body support and side impact protection, most of the strength will be in the main frame. My old Gd cobra replica had a similar design with no outriggers. (Not a pic of my chassis)

[magpies]

they give very little (but some) side protection. They do support the body and provide an anchorage point for the seatbelt (although this does corrode to the point of being useless). Bolt on outriggers would provide the same.

[GTRene]

mostly yes, but also the points to lift the chassis give some rigid strength, the 4 slanting? bars, see pic>



and that all combined with the carros bolted on makes it a bit more rigid me thinks.

might be not much? depends on how you make it bolteble, those outriggers.

if you put in every joint/pipe a strong smaller pipe to bolt it on and its a very tight fit,
then it could be 'fine'
but then its very hard to get it on and or off again, you then still have to lift the car a bit I guess?

[Chuffmeister]

A partial lift would make the job a lot easier if they were bolt on and would allow you to hammer in some close fitting sleeves and cut the original out riggers off to the correct length.

[chimyellow]

If I was to get another Chimaera (happy with the one I have already) or inspect one for a friend and came across one with bolted on outriggers I would probably walk away. Mainly because of the thought of it.

Also what would the insurance implications be as it is a major modification to the structure.

[pb450]

^ +1. Insurance companies likely to take some convincing that the bolted connections don't compromise the structural integrity of the chassis.

And how do you prove it conclusively without a lot of expensive testing?

[mickh32]

I agree with chimyellow that the thought of the bolt on riggers would be enough to make a lot of people walk away even if you could prove it was as good as the original. I don't think that the structure would be compromised with a nut and bolt construction but it would probably be advisable to consult with VOSA before hand. There seems to be so much emphasis put on the strength and condition of those out riggers when surely all they do is offer lateral support for the body. The two pipes that run down the outside of the motor probably take very little stress at all.