330d vs A4 3.0 TDI
Discussion
Just looking some opinions at the moment regarding my next company car. I'm a sole trader, so emissions doesn't come into play in terms of tax. I have narrowed it down to a BMW 330d X-Drive or an Audi A4 3.0 TDI Quattro. I have driven both and both are very impressive cars. I thought the BMW was noisy at idle and had more road noise on the motorway than the Audi, but the BMW has a better warranty, more economical and sounds better on acceleration. The Audi defiantly has a better cabin and seats and is quieter to sit in but not as economical. I'll cover 30k a year and will keep the car 4 years before changing it again. Also, I sell farm machinery and agricultural technologies, and I think the Audi has a much more subtle image. Just looking for some opinions and if any of you guys are running these cars at the moment and what your thoughts are?
Easy, Audi.
The residual values on them are fantastic, even with some miles on and the interior is a real step up. The chassis is set up for effortless, all weather pace and doing 30k miles a year that sounds like what you need. The BMW would probably be slightly better on fuel in the real world as a 2 wheel drive car.
I drive a decent number of different BMWs (the brand being so similar to Audi means we see a lot part exchanged) so am talking from some experience.
Did 42.7 average in a manual A5 3.0 TDI yesterday over ~100 miles cross country making sensible but spirited progress. These are only a shade lighter than an A4.
The residual values on them are fantastic, even with some miles on and the interior is a real step up. The chassis is set up for effortless, all weather pace and doing 30k miles a year that sounds like what you need. The BMW would probably be slightly better on fuel in the real world as a 2 wheel drive car.
I drive a decent number of different BMWs (the brand being so similar to Audi means we see a lot part exchanged) so am talking from some experience.
Did 42.7 average in a manual A5 3.0 TDI yesterday over ~100 miles cross country making sensible but spirited progress. These are only a shade lighter than an A4.
I really wish I had had and insisted on a minimum of a 12 hours test drive in both the A4 and the 3 series .
What I know now would never have chosen the Audi , Audi UK and the dealers I have experience of are complete crap , full stop.
The BMW even in the short test drive I had I now realise is the more accomplished chassis and certainly a better ride . Although for some reason I found this 320 tricky to drive smoothly , more me than the car I suspect
Was out with a friend 2 nights ago who was in the Audi for the first time , he asked what was wrong the the car had I over inflated the tyres , ( he drives a 5 series ) and would I pay for the dentist to put his fillings back in , I explained that the ride is poor and as he pointed out my S2000 and his 911 both have a more comfortable ride
Fuel economy is poor by comparison with the 2 litre lump and that is in comparison with the guy who lives opposite and does the same sort of journey at similar speeds , I get 46 mpg against his 54
Further research also suggests that Audi are by far the most unreliable and expensive to repair of all of the alleged quality car marques , and indeed worse than many budget brands , draw your own conclusions is this why the warranty is poor by comparison !
Dash may have nice plastics but is ergonomically poor in its layout , there are any number of annoying errors even down to the coins slots not holding £1 coins !
I personally find the electronic parking brake hateful in every respect , and a solution to a non existent problem, but then I use a cars handbrake all the time whereas the vast majority of drivers never do these days , just look at the brake lights in a stationary row of traffic.
Sorry Audi acolytes , but Audi are triumph of expectation over reality
What I know now would never have chosen the Audi , Audi UK and the dealers I have experience of are complete crap , full stop.
The BMW even in the short test drive I had I now realise is the more accomplished chassis and certainly a better ride . Although for some reason I found this 320 tricky to drive smoothly , more me than the car I suspect
Was out with a friend 2 nights ago who was in the Audi for the first time , he asked what was wrong the the car had I over inflated the tyres , ( he drives a 5 series ) and would I pay for the dentist to put his fillings back in , I explained that the ride is poor and as he pointed out my S2000 and his 911 both have a more comfortable ride
Fuel economy is poor by comparison with the 2 litre lump and that is in comparison with the guy who lives opposite and does the same sort of journey at similar speeds , I get 46 mpg against his 54
Further research also suggests that Audi are by far the most unreliable and expensive to repair of all of the alleged quality car marques , and indeed worse than many budget brands , draw your own conclusions is this why the warranty is poor by comparison !
Dash may have nice plastics but is ergonomically poor in its layout , there are any number of annoying errors even down to the coins slots not holding £1 coins !
I personally find the electronic parking brake hateful in every respect , and a solution to a non existent problem, but then I use a cars handbrake all the time whereas the vast majority of drivers never do these days , just look at the brake lights in a stationary row of traffic.
Sorry Audi acolytes , but Audi are triumph of expectation over reality
Edited by Chippo1 on Friday 2nd January 19:44
As a driver Bmw for me every time, I deal in both and drive them all the time , the Audi is good, I would say better finished interior and higher build quality , but for me what makes the Audi so good also makes it so bad in terms of its such a boring car to drive , every time I use an Audi im just never inspired by the drive and I tend to drive it like my grandad.
Im currently driving the latest 330d m sport in non x drive (I dont need 4wd) and its a cracking car, £100 a year to tax, goes very well and on a steady run will easy crack over 50mpg, last 2 months of local driving im sat at an average of 43mpg, 8 speed auto box is a big improvement over the earlier model.
For me if you prefer to drive a car by the Beemer, if you like to be driven buy the Audi.
Im currently driving the latest 330d m sport in non x drive (I dont need 4wd) and its a cracking car, £100 a year to tax, goes very well and on a steady run will easy crack over 50mpg, last 2 months of local driving im sat at an average of 43mpg, 8 speed auto box is a big improvement over the earlier model.
For me if you prefer to drive a car by the Beemer, if you like to be driven buy the Audi.
djc206 said:
For an engaging drive BMW. For a nicer place to sit whilst on a motorway the Audi.
Pretty much sums it up.We have both at work and both get driven quite hard, the X drive is better when pressing on, but the Audi is much nicer inside. The auto box on the BMW feels nicer and I find more responsive.
I'd be torn between the two if it was me
Lads, thanks for all your helped advice. So here we are two weeks into January, I was looking to complete a deal within the first week of January, still can't get a test drive in an A4 3.0 TDI, Audi have let me down twice now and hopefully we can get one for Monday 2 Feb. I honestly do want an Audi, but dealer hasn't been great, feel like I'm begging them to buy a car. I've my own in business selling farm equipment, if I treated my customers like this I wouldn't have any!! All my sales are valuable. Are Audi dealers getting too easy at the moment? Feeling disappointed and frustrated with the whole buying process!
Mad Steve said:
Lads, thanks for all your helped advice. So here we are two weeks into January, I was looking to complete a deal within the first week of January, still can't get a test drive in an A4 3.0 TDI, Audi have let me down twice now and hopefully we can get one for Monday 2 Feb. I honestly do want an Audi, but dealer hasn't been great, feel like I'm begging them to buy a car. I've my own in business selling farm equipment, if I treated my customers like this I wouldn't have any!! All my sales are valuable. Are Audi dealers getting too easy at the moment? Feeling disappointed and frustrated with the whole buying process!
I think you've answered your own question here. If it's this bad when you are looking to spend £30k plus with Audi, what will it be like when you need something from them? I've had both and I'm a BMW man. I actually prefer VW to Audi.
I went directly from a 530d to an A6 3.0TDi.
Different cars, but same generation (E61 BMW to C6 A6).
BMW pros: Genuinely excited about the car when I got it. Never had a BM before and had heard loads about the 3.0 diesel and 50/50 balance. Car was great to drive and never felt as big as it looked.
BMW Cons: Dealer service was awful. Worse than anything I ever received at Audi - and that's saying something. Car felt like it was made of chocolate as so much kept breaking. Ride was bad on run-flats - much improved on winter tyres or non-run-flat. RWD - so utterly useless in snow. Ironically, almost crashed it while picking up winter tyres for it.
AUDI pros: Faster (my old BM was the 218PS version, the Audi is 233PS), Quattro is great - although it's almost negated by the fact the car is so long and low (Le Mans version) so it will bottom out before it loses traction. Interior is a HUGE step up. MMI is better to me than I-Drive, but that's personal thing. Despite 4WD, fuel economy is better.
AUDI cons: S-Line/Le Mans suspension is harsh. I'm currently on my winter tyres (17) and not looking forward to putting the 19s back on. Dealer network still poor. Popularity means you need to chase them to get anything done, they rarely do the running around for you. Not as bulletproof as I was led to believe.
All things considered, I prefer my Audi. I still prefer the image, but it's a close run thing these days. I always said of my BM that if they ever offered the X-drive version of a 535d, it would pretty much be my ideal car.
The one thing I would consider if I were you is ride height. As mentioned above, my A6 bottoms out really easily, so going up farm tracks and stuff I need to be very careful. If you buy and sell farm equipment, I'd imagine it would be worthwhile checking the options for this. The A4 will be better than my A6 but I'd definitely check them both.
I'd be surprised that X-drive is better than Quattro, but I've never driven the BM version so can't comment.
Different cars, but same generation (E61 BMW to C6 A6).
BMW pros: Genuinely excited about the car when I got it. Never had a BM before and had heard loads about the 3.0 diesel and 50/50 balance. Car was great to drive and never felt as big as it looked.
BMW Cons: Dealer service was awful. Worse than anything I ever received at Audi - and that's saying something. Car felt like it was made of chocolate as so much kept breaking. Ride was bad on run-flats - much improved on winter tyres or non-run-flat. RWD - so utterly useless in snow. Ironically, almost crashed it while picking up winter tyres for it.
AUDI pros: Faster (my old BM was the 218PS version, the Audi is 233PS), Quattro is great - although it's almost negated by the fact the car is so long and low (Le Mans version) so it will bottom out before it loses traction. Interior is a HUGE step up. MMI is better to me than I-Drive, but that's personal thing. Despite 4WD, fuel economy is better.
AUDI cons: S-Line/Le Mans suspension is harsh. I'm currently on my winter tyres (17) and not looking forward to putting the 19s back on. Dealer network still poor. Popularity means you need to chase them to get anything done, they rarely do the running around for you. Not as bulletproof as I was led to believe.
All things considered, I prefer my Audi. I still prefer the image, but it's a close run thing these days. I always said of my BM that if they ever offered the X-drive version of a 535d, it would pretty much be my ideal car.
The one thing I would consider if I were you is ride height. As mentioned above, my A6 bottoms out really easily, so going up farm tracks and stuff I need to be very careful. If you buy and sell farm equipment, I'd imagine it would be worthwhile checking the options for this. The A4 will be better than my A6 but I'd definitely check them both.
I'd be surprised that X-drive is better than Quattro, but I've never driven the BM version so can't comment.
Ragarding weather XDrive is better than Quattro, you have to remember these are brand names not system.
Quattro on a TT is different to on an A4 and different again to a Q7
I dont know much about XDrive but here is a pic of a Q7 and a BWM MX5 spot the diffence between Xdrive and Quattro in this one.
Same ZF unit with the same (Land Rover derived) tranfer box.
Quattro on a TT is different to on an A4 and different again to a Q7
I dont know much about XDrive but here is a pic of a Q7 and a BWM MX5 spot the diffence between Xdrive and Quattro in this one.
Same ZF unit with the same (Land Rover derived) tranfer box.
Tame Technician said:
Same ZF unit with the same (Land Rover derived) tranfer box.
Not sure about that - the BMW system uses an electronically controlled clutch to shuffle the power back and forth while the Q7 uses a torsen centre diff. I also seem to recall the Audi system is from Borg Warner.Can I chip in regarding X Drive. I would not touch it with a barge pole mainly because my wife had an X3 and my sales manager had an X3 and both failed with warning lights on the dash that stated the 4WD actuator had failed. In fact the plastic gear in the unit fails as the worm gear is metal and the other gear is obviously designed to fail. If the 3 series is different then the rest of this post is irrelevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NmRe6DbXuY here is how to repair it
The BMW dealer will replace the whole unit for £840.00 or advise that teh transfer box may need replacing at £2,500, when in fact the plastic gear can be replaced for less than £30.00 and 1 hour's labour.
So driving experience aside; and I am sure the BMW is excellent, I do not want to buy a 4WD system that has an inherent weakness designed into it. My 3 x Quattro Audi's have never had a failure (in over 185,000 miles in one car), so my mind is made up. However, RWD 330 is a different conversation..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NmRe6DbXuY here is how to repair it
The BMW dealer will replace the whole unit for £840.00 or advise that teh transfer box may need replacing at £2,500, when in fact the plastic gear can be replaced for less than £30.00 and 1 hour's labour.
So driving experience aside; and I am sure the BMW is excellent, I do not want to buy a 4WD system that has an inherent weakness designed into it. My 3 x Quattro Audi's have never had a failure (in over 185,000 miles in one car), so my mind is made up. However, RWD 330 is a different conversation..
To the OP if your still on the hunt be aware the 3 series X drive ONLY comes with standard suspension even if you go M sport.I had standard on my 330d F30 and its awful floaty wallowy bouncy ,honestly very bad so my 2 week old car went to AC Schnitzer and the springs and dampers have transformed it.So the answer is to add M sport adaptive suspension I think £750.
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