Penalty Charge Notice for parking with a valid ticket
Discussion
Hi there,
Bit of background...
Wife receives a Penalty Charge Notice for parking in a car park with a valid ticket on the dashboard, the problem is it flipped over when she closed the door on exit. The ticket was still on the dashboard when she returned and found the notice placed on the windscreen. A friend mentioned that the parameters are that a valid ticket should be purchased (which it was).
Has anyone had a similar experience and should she pay up or take it to an independent adjudicator where hopefully common sense will prevail...?
Bit of background...
Wife receives a Penalty Charge Notice for parking in a car park with a valid ticket on the dashboard, the problem is it flipped over when she closed the door on exit. The ticket was still on the dashboard when she returned and found the notice placed on the windscreen. A friend mentioned that the parameters are that a valid ticket should be purchased (which it was).
Has anyone had a similar experience and should she pay up or take it to an independent adjudicator where hopefully common sense will prevail...?
You really should not pay before appealing, paying is essentially an admission of guilt and how much attention do you think an appeal would get after that? Every council I've seen extends the 50% reduction offer after a failed appeal, so you won't lose anything by appealing first.
Simply tell them you had a valid ticket, send them a photo of it, and perhaps they'll ask for you to send the original but so long as you have a valid ticket as your evidence you'll be fine.
The parking warden had to ticket you because he couldn't see it, the council should now retract it because you had actually paid. Simple really.
Simply tell them you had a valid ticket, send them a photo of it, and perhaps they'll ask for you to send the original but so long as you have a valid ticket as your evidence you'll be fine.
The parking warden had to ticket you because he couldn't see it, the council should now retract it because you had actually paid. Simple really.
I've had this before, took photos of the PNC on the screen next to the flipped over ticket, emailed them with flipped over ticket details inc photo & they let me off of it.
I've also been ticketed numerous times on my motorbike for not displaying a ticket, despite it stating on the councils website that motorbikes don't need to display a ticket as parking is free. I've got off all of those as well, maybe 4-5 tickets.
I've also been ticketed numerous times on my motorbike for not displaying a ticket, despite it stating on the councils website that motorbikes don't need to display a ticket as parking is free. I've got off all of those as well, maybe 4-5 tickets.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Pay up (to get the best price) then appeal. They are usually quite understanding. (and to be honest, if it goes wibbly wobbly it won't change your life 
)
Really bad advice - it may have worked for you, but most councils consider that making payment is an acceptance of the offence and so will not consider an appeal.)Instead, I'd suggest making an honest appeal within the 14 day limit - even if it's free rejected you usually get offered the option to pay at the lower price.
Mega frosty icy night was forecast, so we thought, ah ha, lets put an old sheet over the windscreen whilst at the theatre, thereby, driving home with a clear view of the icy -5 o C conditions. Put the carpark ticket in full view in the rear side window. came back at 11 pm that night....yep you guessed. Ticketed!! Love it. Thankyou Cornwall CC in Truro.
I had my first parking ticket in over 25 years of driving in mousehole, Cornwall this summer despite having a valid ticket which had blown over, probably as the door was closed. Ended up paying the £60 fine after sending them the actual valid ticket. Apparently the T&C's at the car park (but not on the actual ticket) say it must be fully displayed.
Didn't have time to take it any further, but next time I will park in a road for free, rather than a car park.
Didn't have time to take it any further, but next time I will park in a road for free, rather than a car park.
rscott said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Pay up (to get the best price) then appeal. They are usually quite understanding. (and to be honest, if it goes wibbly wobbly it won't change your life )
Really bad advice - it may have worked for you, but most councils consider that making payment is an acceptance of the offence and so will not consider an appeal.)Instead, I'd suggest making an honest appeal within the 14 day limit - even if it's free rejected you usually get offered the option to pay at the lower price.
(and I am a novice...first parking ticket in 40 years driving So today, the council have rejected the appeal to cancel the PCN. (In essence ticket was purchased but not placed correctly on the dashboard). Here is their response.
Apart from its condescending nature, I can't believe common sense hasn't prevailed. My wife has commented on the fact that the advertising on the rear of the ticket could be genuinely mistaken for the front of the ticket but I don't know whether I should appeal this or not? Comments?
Here is the response...
The representation that you made in respect of the Notice to Owner/Penalty Charge Notice dated ## ## ## which was served on you in respect of the above parking contravention has been considered by the Borough Council and has been rejected for the following reasons
The Penalty Charge Notice was issued as the pay and display ticket was not correctly displayed. There was a failure to comply with the fundamental requirement governing this parking place, the contravention without a doubt happened and the vehicle when observed was parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket, voucher or parking clock, in fact the details on the ticket was not visible.. The civil enforcement officer needs to be able to clearly see the details on the ticket to validate it and the enforcement officer could not on this occasion.
The council recognise and acknowledge that your intentions were honourable in the fact that you obtained/purchased a ticket and intended to display the ticket in accordance with the governing restrictions, the important details on the ticket, being the date and expiry time on the ticket could not be read, this crucial information on the ticket confirms its validity. It is a reasonable expectation that the motorist parking a vehicle will pause just long enough to ensure that the parking ticket/voucher remained in the same position as placed and is legible from outside the vehicle, before finally leaving the vehicle unattended.
The council have approximately 60,000 car park users per month, many of which I assume are very busy people and by comparison a relatively low Penalty Charge Notice issue rate for this type of contravention, therefore the majority of users don't have problems displaying a ticket or voucher in a relevant position.
Tickets and or vouchers are of a reasonable gauge and when placed correctly on the dashboard, stay put in most weather conditions and or when doors are opened and shut, this theory has been tested, however in the event weather conditions are not conducive to that activity greater due care and attention should be exercised. The motorist has an obligation to check and ensure the ticket or voucher is displayed appropriately to enable subsequent inspections by the enforcement officer before leaving the vehicle unattended.
The Traffic Regulation Order provide by virtue of article 24 that the obtained ticket/voucher will be displayed; at all times and should be clearly visible in the relevant position whilst the vehicle is parked. The relevant position as desribed by the order defitinition (interpretation) also require the ticket/voucher to be legible from outside the vehicle, this was not the case, and therefore the correct penalty charge notice was issued. The penalty charge notice received had nothing to do with the amount of time spent in the parking place, rather the fact that a ticket/voucher was not displayed in accordance with the restrictions that govern this parking place. Responsibility for an individual’s actions within a parking place should be proportionate in relation to complying with the governing restrictions, it is more probable that the ticket was placed upside-down rather than it had blown upside-down or flipped over when the car door was closed.
Every effort has been made to communicate the terms and conditions of parking to the service user, however it does require the service user to engage in observing the signage that is displayed. The motorist has an obligation to thoroughly read the signage and understand the terms of parking before leaving their vehicle unattended. The council always considers exercising its discretionary powers at every stage of the appeals process in line with the secretary of state’s statutory guidance to Local Authorities and can demonstrate this through the appeals process, therefore act fairly and proportionately when discharging its function in relation to the Traffic Management Act 2004.
The council do not question the fact that you had obtained a valid ticket and only question the fact the ticket was not clearly displayed in accordance with the governing restriction without good reasons. Mitigation has been considered, however the council believe there is insufficient mitigation present at this stage that can be realistically considered in this case. I have therefore found no grounds for the Penalty Charge Notice to be cancelled.
I am able to offer the discount amount of £25.00, if payment is received within 14 days of this letter.
Apart from its condescending nature, I can't believe common sense hasn't prevailed. My wife has commented on the fact that the advertising on the rear of the ticket could be genuinely mistaken for the front of the ticket but I don't know whether I should appeal this or not? Comments?
Here is the response...
The representation that you made in respect of the Notice to Owner/Penalty Charge Notice dated ## ## ## which was served on you in respect of the above parking contravention has been considered by the Borough Council and has been rejected for the following reasons
The Penalty Charge Notice was issued as the pay and display ticket was not correctly displayed. There was a failure to comply with the fundamental requirement governing this parking place, the contravention without a doubt happened and the vehicle when observed was parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket, voucher or parking clock, in fact the details on the ticket was not visible.. The civil enforcement officer needs to be able to clearly see the details on the ticket to validate it and the enforcement officer could not on this occasion.
The council recognise and acknowledge that your intentions were honourable in the fact that you obtained/purchased a ticket and intended to display the ticket in accordance with the governing restrictions, the important details on the ticket, being the date and expiry time on the ticket could not be read, this crucial information on the ticket confirms its validity. It is a reasonable expectation that the motorist parking a vehicle will pause just long enough to ensure that the parking ticket/voucher remained in the same position as placed and is legible from outside the vehicle, before finally leaving the vehicle unattended.
The council have approximately 60,000 car park users per month, many of which I assume are very busy people and by comparison a relatively low Penalty Charge Notice issue rate for this type of contravention, therefore the majority of users don't have problems displaying a ticket or voucher in a relevant position.
Tickets and or vouchers are of a reasonable gauge and when placed correctly on the dashboard, stay put in most weather conditions and or when doors are opened and shut, this theory has been tested, however in the event weather conditions are not conducive to that activity greater due care and attention should be exercised. The motorist has an obligation to check and ensure the ticket or voucher is displayed appropriately to enable subsequent inspections by the enforcement officer before leaving the vehicle unattended.
The Traffic Regulation Order provide by virtue of article 24 that the obtained ticket/voucher will be displayed; at all times and should be clearly visible in the relevant position whilst the vehicle is parked. The relevant position as desribed by the order defitinition (interpretation) also require the ticket/voucher to be legible from outside the vehicle, this was not the case, and therefore the correct penalty charge notice was issued. The penalty charge notice received had nothing to do with the amount of time spent in the parking place, rather the fact that a ticket/voucher was not displayed in accordance with the restrictions that govern this parking place. Responsibility for an individual’s actions within a parking place should be proportionate in relation to complying with the governing restrictions, it is more probable that the ticket was placed upside-down rather than it had blown upside-down or flipped over when the car door was closed.
Every effort has been made to communicate the terms and conditions of parking to the service user, however it does require the service user to engage in observing the signage that is displayed. The motorist has an obligation to thoroughly read the signage and understand the terms of parking before leaving their vehicle unattended. The council always considers exercising its discretionary powers at every stage of the appeals process in line with the secretary of state’s statutory guidance to Local Authorities and can demonstrate this through the appeals process, therefore act fairly and proportionately when discharging its function in relation to the Traffic Management Act 2004.
The council do not question the fact that you had obtained a valid ticket and only question the fact the ticket was not clearly displayed in accordance with the governing restriction without good reasons. Mitigation has been considered, however the council believe there is insufficient mitigation present at this stage that can be realistically considered in this case. I have therefore found no grounds for the Penalty Charge Notice to be cancelled.
I am able to offer the discount amount of £25.00, if payment is received within 14 days of this letter.
I know it's not of much use but what's happened here is one of the reasons why I always double check the ticket is clearly visible (as well as making sure my car is locked and parking as far away as possible from other cars )
I appreciate I may be in a minority, and your wife most probably threw the ticket on the windscreen, and then rushed off to do what she was doing....
)I appreciate I may be in a minority, and your wife most probably threw the ticket on the windscreen, and then rushed off to do what she was doing....
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