Floyd Rose frustrations
Discussion
Took out my Ibanez today after it had been shut away in its case for some time. The frets and strings were looking a bit crusty so decided it needed some TLC and set to work with the masking tape, steel wool and lemon oil. All came up lovely so took out a fresh set of Ernie Balls and this is where things started going wrong.
Whenever I've changed the strings before I've followed the tip of one at a time and its always been fine. However for my cleaning efforts I needed to take the lot off together, how hard can it be I thought. Very, is the answer to that question. I can't seem to tune it up properly without the Floyd Rose bridge sitting ridiculously high. And that's after shredding a couple of strings as they pulled out at the bridge end as I took up the slack.
If anyone here has any tips on how to do this or a link to a decent online guide I'd be eternally grateful.
Cheers gang, Darren.
Whenever I've changed the strings before I've followed the tip of one at a time and its always been fine. However for my cleaning efforts I needed to take the lot off together, how hard can it be I thought. Very, is the answer to that question. I can't seem to tune it up properly without the Floyd Rose bridge sitting ridiculously high. And that's after shredding a couple of strings as they pulled out at the bridge end as I took up the slack.
If anyone here has any tips on how to do this or a link to a decent online guide I'd be eternally grateful.
Cheers gang, Darren.
I had this problem with the bridge on my Soloist. I had paid for a setup and string change going from .9's to .10's. Guess what, the lazy tech just slapped a new set of 9's on it and gave it back to me, so when I put .10's on it pulled the bridge base up and ruined the tuning. Adjusting the springs didn't cure it but made it a little better. I traded the damn thing in for a Stratocaster!
I'm wondering about that, I use 10's now but played with 9's years ago. Thought I made the change before I got this one (I've not played it for quite a while, never mind change the strings anytime recently).
Now I'm not so sure. Presumably I would need to increase the tension on the springs if it is that? This also had me worrying about intonation, which I believe is a pain to adjust on a FR bridge?
Might just get some 9's tomorrow and get shot of it.
Now I'm not so sure. Presumably I would need to increase the tension on the springs if it is that? This also had me worrying about intonation, which I believe is a pain to adjust on a FR bridge?
Might just get some 9's tomorrow and get shot of it.
There is a lot of myth and misconception about double locking tremolo systems, first and foremost is that they're difficult to work with. Also, if you have an Ibanez, it's unlikely the bridge is a Floyd Rose, but it will be close enough in design that they all work the same way.
When you refitted the bridge, was the knife edge pivot securely and properly placed? Was the bridge piece sat correctly on the trem posts? Did you adjust the trem posts at all in this process, and are they currently a level height with each other? If the bridge is not level (IE, pulling higher on one side than the other) then consider the questions above. If the bridge is level, ignore them.
What has almost certainly happened is that you've put some heavier strings on. It seems that a lot of people disagree as to what is a "medium" string - wikipedia says .11, many people think it's a .10, when I bought my first guitar I was told it was stringed with "mediums which are .09s" - so I've been stringing my guitars with 9s ever since. Either way, get a new pack of strings, that you actually know the gauge of by using the number on the packet, or set about sorting the guitar with the ones you've got on there.
Unlock and remove the nut pieces, ensure the guitar is broadly in tune using the machineheads on the headstock. Keep the fine tuners on the bridge about halfway through their adjustment range. Once broadly in tune, use a screwdriver to tighten the screws in the rear of the body that hold the trem claw, turn each a quarter turn at a time. Do one, then the other, adjusting each screw by the same amount - if the trem is properly fitted, you should be able to slowly bring the level down, not letting on side drop faster than the other. Every couple of adjustmnets, check the tuning - it will go sharp as the trem recedes, putting additional tension on the strings. Remember that the idea is to have the tension balanced between string and spring when the guitar is in tune, so continually check and adjust the tuning as you adjust the spring tension via the screws.
Eventually, you will have the trem level in the correct position, and the guitar pretty much in tune. Now put the nut pieces back on, lock them in place and use the fine tuners on the bridge to finalise the tuning. Voila, job done.
Be sure to google your guitar and check what bridge you've got. A Floyd Rose is in the correct position when the bridge is is parallel to the surface of the guitar body (looking at the edge of the route for the bridge). Some Ibanez bridges are not so simple, for example the Ibanez Lo Pro extends from the body at an angle, it's the saddle tops you need to line up with the body surface. See below for an example.
I know that trems can be frustrating things, and people don't want to fiddle for fear of things going wrong, but they really are quite simple once you understand the relationship between the screws in the rear and the machineheads.
When you refitted the bridge, was the knife edge pivot securely and properly placed? Was the bridge piece sat correctly on the trem posts? Did you adjust the trem posts at all in this process, and are they currently a level height with each other? If the bridge is not level (IE, pulling higher on one side than the other) then consider the questions above. If the bridge is level, ignore them.
What has almost certainly happened is that you've put some heavier strings on. It seems that a lot of people disagree as to what is a "medium" string - wikipedia says .11, many people think it's a .10, when I bought my first guitar I was told it was stringed with "mediums which are .09s" - so I've been stringing my guitars with 9s ever since. Either way, get a new pack of strings, that you actually know the gauge of by using the number on the packet, or set about sorting the guitar with the ones you've got on there.
Unlock and remove the nut pieces, ensure the guitar is broadly in tune using the machineheads on the headstock. Keep the fine tuners on the bridge about halfway through their adjustment range. Once broadly in tune, use a screwdriver to tighten the screws in the rear of the body that hold the trem claw, turn each a quarter turn at a time. Do one, then the other, adjusting each screw by the same amount - if the trem is properly fitted, you should be able to slowly bring the level down, not letting on side drop faster than the other. Every couple of adjustmnets, check the tuning - it will go sharp as the trem recedes, putting additional tension on the strings. Remember that the idea is to have the tension balanced between string and spring when the guitar is in tune, so continually check and adjust the tuning as you adjust the spring tension via the screws.
Eventually, you will have the trem level in the correct position, and the guitar pretty much in tune. Now put the nut pieces back on, lock them in place and use the fine tuners on the bridge to finalise the tuning. Voila, job done.
Be sure to google your guitar and check what bridge you've got. A Floyd Rose is in the correct position when the bridge is is parallel to the surface of the guitar body (looking at the edge of the route for the bridge). Some Ibanez bridges are not so simple, for example the Ibanez Lo Pro extends from the body at an angle, it's the saddle tops you need to line up with the body surface. See below for an example.
I know that trems can be frustrating things, and people don't want to fiddle for fear of things going wrong, but they really are quite simple once you understand the relationship between the screws in the rear and the machineheads.
Mastodon2, lots of useful stuff there so cheers for that. It is a licensed Floyd on there, as you said that's unlikely I'm assuming its not original (I bought it secondhand). The strings I've just put on are a brand new set of 10's. while typing your post you may have missed mine above about it possibly having 9's fitted previously?
Anyway before reading your post I've adjusted up the strings in the back (evenly as you suggested) and retuned bit by bit until the guitar is in tune and the bridge is now balanced with the back of it level with the body.
Now my intonation is out as a result of the gauge change so I need to look at that tomorrow and I don't want to think about truss rod adjustment haha. Any tips with that will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Anyway before reading your post I've adjusted up the strings in the back (evenly as you suggested) and retuned bit by bit until the guitar is in tune and the bridge is now balanced with the back of it level with the body.
Now my intonation is out as a result of the gauge change so I need to look at that tomorrow and I don't want to think about truss rod adjustment haha. Any tips with that will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
LikesBikes said:
Mastodon2, lots of useful stuff there so cheers for that. It is a licensed Floyd on there, as you said that's unlikely I'm assuming its not original (I bought it secondhand). The strings I've just put on are a brand new set of 10's. while typing your post you may have missed mine above about it possibly having 9's fitted previously?
Anyway before reading your post I've adjusted up the strings in the back (evenly as you suggested) and retuned bit by bit until the guitar is in tune and the bridge is now balanced with the back of it level with the body.
Now my intonation is out as a result of the gauge change so I need to look at that tomorrow and I don't want to think about truss rod adjustment haha. Any tips with that will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Yeah I saw the bit abouts 9's, the reason I put the bit about gauges is sometimes you go into a guitar shop and ask for some "mediums" and you just get whatever the salesman's idea of a medium gauge is, so you may have put heavier strings on without knowing. I play 7 strings, so even greater frustration ensues when I ask for strings, I have to ask very specifically for what I want or I just get any old set flung at me.Anyway before reading your post I've adjusted up the strings in the back (evenly as you suggested) and retuned bit by bit until the guitar is in tune and the bridge is now balanced with the back of it level with the body.
Now my intonation is out as a result of the gauge change so I need to look at that tomorrow and I don't want to think about truss rod adjustment haha. Any tips with that will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
If it's a licensed Floyd Rose, the design should be essentially identical to a Floyd Rose Original, so look up a guide for intonation adjustment, it can be a laborious process, but you should be able to do it with some patience, basically you'll be using a screwdriver to move the string saddles back and forth, playing a 12th fret harmonic and then a fretted note on the 12th fret, and adjusting based on that, with the aim to be to get the two to be the same pitch. It can be a git of a job, because you only need to make tiny adjustments to each saddle and the process of adjusting and checking is laborious. If you haven't done it before, look up a guide or youtube video so you can see the process and you're doing it right.
Truss rod adjustment is another kettle of fish altogether, and unless something has gone awry with your guitar, it shouldn't need doing. You should find that once you've got your trem balanced, you may only need to make minor adjustment to the intonation, or perhaps even none at all. Before going wild, play the guitar a bit and see if you like the feel of the strings, if not, put lighter or heavier ones on to taste, set the trem tension again and play the guitar to see how it feels.
If you are going to change to lighter strings, remember that once you put them on and tune them up with the machineheads, the trem will recede into the body, as the screws in the back have been adjusted for greater load, so they'll need loosening the same way as they were tightened. Quarter turn each, one side then the next, check the level, repeat.
The key with trems is consistency - as I say, they're not difficult to work, but they do require some learning compared to a Fender-style trem or a fixed bridge. The key to an easy trem life is consistency, get it set up once and as long as you keep using the same strings and don't try changing tunings, they're a doddle to live with.
As a tip for future string changes, you probably already do this but just in case; prior to changing the strings, unlock and remove the nut pieces, put the whammy bar in and press it down, loosening the strings off so you can get a deck of card / pile of Postit notes under the bridge, blocking it in a "lifted out of the body" position. The strings should have very little tension by this point, almost no tension at all. Change all the strings, one by one, using the same gauge strings as you're replacing, give the new strings a little bit of tension with the machineheads, then depress the bar and pull the block out from under the trem. Now retune the strings broadly at the headstock end, and the bridge should sit perfectly. Then spend a good while stretching the strings by hand (fret different notes, pull the string up in the middle with your right hand, literally stretching them in), and once keep retuning at the machineheads. Once they stop going flat when you stretch them, retune at the headstock, lock the nut, set the tuning with the fine tuners and you're done. Piece of piss, though the stretching can take a while. Usually takes me about 45-50 minutes to change strings and get them stretched properly, so put TV on while you do it. You need to stretch the strings properly prior to locking the nut, or they will continue to stretch while you play the guitar, and the fine tuners won't have enough adjustment range to take up all the slack.
Ibanez use an edge zero point edge system. As Mastodon points out the key is to get the base
parallel with the body, use credit card, place coaster etc to block off the space at the back of the bridge and the body
i think the gap should be around 3-4 mm. Set the spring adjustment wheel to the mid point. String the guitar and tune.
Remove blocking material and check the base is parallel, if not use the spring adjustment wheel. Retune and check intonation.
Quite a few vids on the subject, but this one covers things pretty well, plus you can look for your specific model.Good luck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j27YtrOdf1o&in...
I have a RGXL370 and changed the strings from 9 > 10. Some time after I was looking on the Ibanez website and I think
for this kind of trem system the suggest 9's only and no heavier.
It did take a while to get it done, so much so I ended up using a section of Aluminium and turning it into a fixed bridge.
parallel with the body, use credit card, place coaster etc to block off the space at the back of the bridge and the body
i think the gap should be around 3-4 mm. Set the spring adjustment wheel to the mid point. String the guitar and tune.
Remove blocking material and check the base is parallel, if not use the spring adjustment wheel. Retune and check intonation.
Quite a few vids on the subject, but this one covers things pretty well, plus you can look for your specific model.Good luck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j27YtrOdf1o&in...
I have a RGXL370 and changed the strings from 9 > 10. Some time after I was looking on the Ibanez website and I think
for this kind of trem system the suggest 9's only and no heavier.
It did take a while to get it done, so much so I ended up using a section of Aluminium and turning it into a fixed bridge.
I would like to add to the good stuff that has already been said on this subject a slightly different way of conceptualizing what is trying to be achieved.
Any given set of strings will require a certain amount of tension to achieve a given pitch. What you are trying to do is to ensure that the bridge will float in the desired position while balancing that tension with the tremolo springs.
So, the job starts here-
with the strings off, wind all the intonation adjustments back so the saddles move AWAY from the neck
adjust the tremolo springs so that they are over-tightened
adjust the tremolo pivot screws and if necessary the neck angle so that when the tremolo is in the desired positions, the strings are a satisfactory distance from the pickups and face of the guitar
fit the strings and rough tune, then stretch the strings and rough tune again
find a way of wedging the trem so that it is where you want it to be (as you over-tightened the springs earlier, this will mean raising the bridge into that position, the arm will make this easier). The wedge will need to be removable. As long as you tightened the springs sufficiently the trem will in effect be locked into the correct position
re-tune and set the intonation (this will be easier because you moved the saddles back earlier, with practice and a suitably lubricated and eased saddle, you can let the tension on the string pull the saddle forward when you ease off the clamp)
by now you are nearly there. All you need to do now is to progressively slacken the tremolo springs to the point that when the wedge is removed, the tremolo stays where it is supposed to be (this will be easy to tell because the guitar will stay in tune when you remove the wedge)
you're done.
Any given set of strings will require a certain amount of tension to achieve a given pitch. What you are trying to do is to ensure that the bridge will float in the desired position while balancing that tension with the tremolo springs.
So, the job starts here-
with the strings off, wind all the intonation adjustments back so the saddles move AWAY from the neck
adjust the tremolo springs so that they are over-tightened
adjust the tremolo pivot screws and if necessary the neck angle so that when the tremolo is in the desired positions, the strings are a satisfactory distance from the pickups and face of the guitar
fit the strings and rough tune, then stretch the strings and rough tune again
find a way of wedging the trem so that it is where you want it to be (as you over-tightened the springs earlier, this will mean raising the bridge into that position, the arm will make this easier). The wedge will need to be removable. As long as you tightened the springs sufficiently the trem will in effect be locked into the correct position
re-tune and set the intonation (this will be easier because you moved the saddles back earlier, with practice and a suitably lubricated and eased saddle, you can let the tension on the string pull the saddle forward when you ease off the clamp)
by now you are nearly there. All you need to do now is to progressively slacken the tremolo springs to the point that when the wedge is removed, the tremolo stays where it is supposed to be (this will be easy to tell because the guitar will stay in tune when you remove the wedge)
you're done.
This thread is turning into a fantastic resource, thank you all for that.
I always go into the shop and ask for "Ernie Ball 10's please", for the reasons Mastodon2 says regarding "medium" strings. I've done intonation on my other guitars before, they have fixed bridges so easier but I know the theory and method. But couldn't see how to adjust the saddles on this short of just loosening the screw and adjusting by hand - turns out this is the method, going by the Floyd Rose site its nothing complicated just more time consuming and trial and error style. Had a quick look at the neck and it appears fine so that'll be left alone. I figure it'll either be all right or it'll have to go in for a set up, so nothing to lose by having a go.
I avoided YouTube as I'm only using an iPhone at the moment, PC is out of action for one reason or another right now. The little screen doesn't always lend itself to vids of a technical nature, especially on things that are usually black with black bits on. Having said that mine is chrome
Anyway thanks again all, I often get frustrated with PH but once away from GG and the lounge it really is a great resource and community.
Cheers
I always go into the shop and ask for "Ernie Ball 10's please", for the reasons Mastodon2 says regarding "medium" strings. I've done intonation on my other guitars before, they have fixed bridges so easier but I know the theory and method. But couldn't see how to adjust the saddles on this short of just loosening the screw and adjusting by hand - turns out this is the method, going by the Floyd Rose site its nothing complicated just more time consuming and trial and error style. Had a quick look at the neck and it appears fine so that'll be left alone. I figure it'll either be all right or it'll have to go in for a set up, so nothing to lose by having a go.
I avoided YouTube as I'm only using an iPhone at the moment, PC is out of action for one reason or another right now. The little screen doesn't always lend itself to vids of a technical nature, especially on things that are usually black with black bits on. Having said that mine is chrome
Anyway thanks again all, I often get frustrated with PH but once away from GG and the lounge it really is a great resource and community.
Cheers
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