Cologne Engine Timing Wheels.
Discussion
Hi all again.
Rebuild is progressing, well at least the crank is in. With all the various boxes of bits I've found an alloy timing wheel which I fitted then found I could fit two of the bolts securing the intermediate front cover plate through the timing wheel cut outs. No problem, timing wheel off, fit gasket/cover plate and refit wheel. However I then realised I'd have a steel crankshaft gear driving a alloy timing wheel.
Acceptable or not? Companies seem to favour replacing both? I have a perfectly serviceable original fibre wheel. Any thoughts please on mixing steel and alloy gears, noise I know is a problem? Thanks for any advice. J C
Rebuild is progressing, well at least the crank is in. With all the various boxes of bits I've found an alloy timing wheel which I fitted then found I could fit two of the bolts securing the intermediate front cover plate through the timing wheel cut outs. No problem, timing wheel off, fit gasket/cover plate and refit wheel. However I then realised I'd have a steel crankshaft gear driving a alloy timing wheel. Acceptable or not? Companies seem to favour replacing both? I have a perfectly serviceable original fibre wheel. Any thoughts please on mixing steel and alloy gears, noise I know is a problem? Thanks for any advice. J C I can confirm the steel cam gear is quite a bit noisier to start with, but then it gets quieter over time, although it's still noisier than the fibre one. Fibre one was the standard Ford fitment.
The fibre ones though can suddenly get shredded and you have a total engine failure - no limp home. On the other hand, chances are when this happens it won't damage anything, but it's a pain to have to strip, clean out all the fibre bits, and rebuild it.
But then, shredded wheel has only happened once to me, and I've done a few miles in Cologne engines, so I don't think the risk is all that high for a standard engine.
Just make sure there's no visible wear on the fibre gear as you put it back. I would use a steel one on a rebuild anyway - at least you are then sure of reliability, and the steel one isn't noticeable for noise once the bonnet is closed....
The fibre ones though can suddenly get shredded and you have a total engine failure - no limp home. On the other hand, chances are when this happens it won't damage anything, but it's a pain to have to strip, clean out all the fibre bits, and rebuild it.
But then, shredded wheel has only happened once to me, and I've done a few miles in Cologne engines, so I don't think the risk is all that high for a standard engine.
Just make sure there's no visible wear on the fibre gear as you put it back. I would use a steel one on a rebuild anyway - at least you are then sure of reliability, and the steel one isn't noticeable for noise once the bonnet is closed....
Alloy....OK. Can't say, to be honest, as I bought 2 steel ones as part of 2 rebiulds.
Is cast aluminium harder than fibre or not ??? Hmmmm....I'm guessing it will be, but I honestly don't know.
I guess wheel will be a 'hard' alloy, I know there are different grades, same as steel, but I don't know anything about the wear characteristics....
Anyone help ??
Is cast aluminium harder than fibre or not ??? Hmmmm....I'm guessing it will be, but I honestly don't know.
I guess wheel will be a 'hard' alloy, I know there are different grades, same as steel, but I don't know anything about the wear characteristics....
Anyone help ??
Thanks Ziga & Andy for the replies. I guess the alloy teeth are harder than fibre and more resilient to wear or damage? However being driven by a steel crankshaft wheel, would this accelerate wear One observation is that the alloy wheel is about a third of weight of the steel one if that makes any difference? Cheers J C.
One observation is that the alloy wheel is about a third of weight of the steel one if that makes any difference? Cheers J C. Forgive me for sounding ridiculous, but......
Remember that's what OIL is for, so the environment isn't like an alloy gear wheel in direct contact with a steel one, but has a layer of oil in between, so it should minimise wear anyway....(yeah, I know, just sayin'....)
The fibre wheel was OE, and they lasted a LONG time (which still surprises me a bit, to be honest), I understand they don't typically fail until high mileages, unless faulty oil due to late changes, water contamination, overheating, etc. etc. so the forces can't be all that big.
I understand the steel one was originally for racing, with big cams, but a few people bought them for reliability and so a market was born....
My failed gear WAS on an engine with a head gasket leak (a 2.3), which I didn't find until I took the engine apart afterwards ..it did use a bit of water, not a huge amount, oil looked OK.... but who knows if this contributed ??
Remember that's what OIL is for, so the environment isn't like an alloy gear wheel in direct contact with a steel one, but has a layer of oil in between, so it should minimise wear anyway....(yeah, I know, just sayin'....)
The fibre wheel was OE, and they lasted a LONG time (which still surprises me a bit, to be honest), I understand they don't typically fail until high mileages, unless faulty oil due to late changes, water contamination, overheating, etc. etc. so the forces can't be all that big.
I understand the steel one was originally for racing, with big cams, but a few people bought them for reliability and so a market was born....
My failed gear WAS on an engine with a head gasket leak (a 2.3), which I didn't find until I took the engine apart afterwards ..it did use a bit of water, not a huge amount, oil looked OK.... but who knows if this contributed ??
After all it's nice and shinny.
Cheers J C.
Any advice please? Cheers J C. Hi John...Apart from some that are pre-shaped like the top water housing and the rad top and bottom hoses..(Granada).. it might be cheaper to use hoses from someone like ...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
As i did for my 280i in the early days...The kits can be very expensive and they don't always contain every hose unless you by the complete kits which are over £200...
I would also change the plastic tee's ..(Expansion tank to matrix)..for copper ones as they can and do snap sometimes when disturbed or re-tightened....
Hope this helps...Ziga
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
As i did for my 280i in the early days...The kits can be very expensive and they don't always contain every hose unless you by the complete kits which are over £200...
I would also change the plastic tee's ..(Expansion tank to matrix)..for copper ones as they can and do snap sometimes when disturbed or re-tightened....
Hope this helps...Ziga
Hoses....
Firstly the two main hoses are 'special' to the wedge (officially), because the radiator is further away from the engine than all the Ford OE setups, and the rad is shorter. However the bottom one has a helix type shape so is quite flexible, I think I have a Cortina mk 4 2.3 one on mine (not sure). The 'engine to engine' ones are all standard Ford.
So you can get them from TVR supplier like David Gerald
As an ex kit car builder, there's so many different hose shapes and styles there's bound to be something local that's close. Here in NZ the local car shops even sell 'universal' hoses, which have various bends etc moulded in, and you cut to fit. I have also joined hoses together with copper pipe (28mm copper joiners = about 1.5 inches dia)- doesn't look pretty, but it works. Cast iron pipe works too.
I noticed one of the NZ Holden Commodore 3800 hoses will probably work for the wedge top hose, after a bit of a trim. You need a friendly shop that will let you browse !!
I often tell any new shop guys it's a special, what a TVR is, etc. Once they are interested, they remember me as an enthusiast with an odd car, and want to help.
Firstly the two main hoses are 'special' to the wedge (officially), because the radiator is further away from the engine than all the Ford OE setups, and the rad is shorter. However the bottom one has a helix type shape so is quite flexible, I think I have a Cortina mk 4 2.3 one on mine (not sure). The 'engine to engine' ones are all standard Ford.
So you can get them from TVR supplier like David Gerald
As an ex kit car builder, there's so many different hose shapes and styles there's bound to be something local that's close. Here in NZ the local car shops even sell 'universal' hoses, which have various bends etc moulded in, and you cut to fit. I have also joined hoses together with copper pipe (28mm copper joiners = about 1.5 inches dia)- doesn't look pretty, but it works. Cast iron pipe works too.
I noticed one of the NZ Holden Commodore 3800 hoses will probably work for the wedge top hose, after a bit of a trim. You need a friendly shop that will let you browse !!
I often tell any new shop guys it's a special, what a TVR is, etc. Once they are interested, they remember me as an enthusiast with an odd car, and want to help.
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 6th January 19:43
Thanks Andy. Where I live N Devon interest from some motor factors in "Specialist Cars" is not that good. Been trained by Halfreds perhaps? 
Fortunately I think within all the boxes I got with my purchase there are the original hoses for patterns. One box I uncovered this weekend had a selection of crankshaft pulleys. Some with 3 and 2 pulley groves. A/C or power steering or both perhaps? Cheers J C.
Fortunately I think within all the boxes I got with my purchase there are the original hoses for patterns. One box I uncovered this weekend had a selection of crankshaft pulleys. Some with 3 and 2 pulley groves. A/C or power steering or both perhaps? Cheers J C.Thanks Andy again. This project is a bit of a mine field in that the previous owner, after removing the engine 14 years ago, whilst the vehicle was re-trimed collected "bits" I think one of his plans might have been to convert the engine to electronic fuel management? Hence fuel rails injectors etc. Plus spare cylinder heads, timing covers and all the nuts, bolts and various brackets associated with raids on other cars/engines. After completing the engine I'm not sure what I'll be confronted with regarding the rest of the car. Cursory inspection shows the running gear is intact and the chassis has its powder coating in good condition. I know my priorities. 
"She" has other ideas, what's wrong with an engine stand in the conservatory instead of a Christmas tree?
I'll pm you with any more queries if I may Andy rather than protract this thread which was originally about timing wheels. Cheers for now. J C
"She" has other ideas, what's wrong with an engine stand in the conservatory instead of a Christmas tree? I'll pm you with any more queries if I may Andy rather than protract this thread which was originally about timing wheels. Cheers for now. J CNow that we've dropped a 24v in the taz racer i've got loads of 2.8 spares, 2-3 short engines, and a load of heads.. looking for a home if anyone wants bits to rebuild engines.. at least 1 of the heads is cracked and one might have a valve sticking out of it but enough bits to build a couple of motors out of... free to a good home... I've also got a mass built 2.9 race motor that needs a home if you fancy converting to a 2.9 for a couple of beer tokens...
When the tasmin series was running i think we had about 3 fibre gears strip across the grid on fairly stock motors, although a lot of people put metal ones in to be safe after the first couple went.
G
When the tasmin series was running i think we had about 3 fibre gears strip across the grid on fairly stock motors, although a lot of people put metal ones in to be safe after the first couple went.
G
Thanks Graham. At present I'm still ploughing through boxes/bags of bits which came with the car. So in the future I might very well shout help, I need a 'whatsit' Time will tell. Interesting about failing fibre timing wheels. Were these on stock 2.8i motors? I was beginning to think it was a rare occurrence. Needless to say I'll be fitting the alloy one supplied. Cheers John C
Time will tell. Interesting about failing fibre timing wheels. Were these on stock 2.8i motors? I was beginning to think it was a rare occurrence. Needless to say I'll be fitting the alloy one supplied. Cheers John CGassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff