VXT or Stripped out 986 S
Discussion
Hey Guys
I'm thinking of getting a roadster of some sort for weekends and to do a few track days this year. Ideally I'd like an S2 Elise but they're out of budget so a VX220 Turbo (not a fan of S1 Elise looks) is on the cards but most the cars under 9k are CAT D and there appear to be a few decent 986 Boxster S's for £6k.
Would a stripped out 986 be as fun to drive and good on track?
I'm thinking of getting a roadster of some sort for weekends and to do a few track days this year. Ideally I'd like an S2 Elise but they're out of budget so a VX220 Turbo (not a fan of S1 Elise looks) is on the cards but most the cars under 9k are CAT D and there appear to be a few decent 986 Boxster S's for £6k.
Would a stripped out 986 be as fun to drive and good on track?
jassihayre said:
Hey Guys
I'm thinking of getting a roadster of some sort for weekends and to do a few track days this year. Ideally I'd like an S2 Elise but they're out of budget so a VX220 Turbo (not a fan of S1 Elise looks) is on the cards but most the cars under 9k are CAT D and there appear to be a few decent 986 Boxster S's for £6k.
Would a stripped out 986 be as fun to drive and good on track?
VXTI'm thinking of getting a roadster of some sort for weekends and to do a few track days this year. Ideally I'd like an S2 Elise but they're out of budget so a VX220 Turbo (not a fan of S1 Elise looks) is on the cards but most the cars under 9k are CAT D and there appear to be a few decent 986 Boxster S's for £6k.
Would a stripped out 986 be as fun to drive and good on track?
What about the option of buying an NA Vx220 and getting it Supercharged, not sure on the costs but its hardly an un-heard of thing as afterall it is a GM motor with a GM supercharger which were designed to go together. Such a mod leaves you with roughly 230-250bhp if you go for the base stage 2 Supercharger conversion and gives you smoother power delivery for track driving (so they say).
Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
ZNSsupercars said:
VXT
No brainer, VX220. I did this in 2012, best track tool I've ever had. Cheap to run and sticks with the best of them. Most are cat d as the clams were made in batches every few months. This means a simple knock will end up in courtesy car cost's passed the agreed values.I paid 6k for a cat d then spent 3k on better turbo/map, coilovers, exhaust, brakes and tyres. For extensive track work it needs better pads (carbon Lorraine, spelling?) and decent fluid.
Best fun I've had for under £10k.
Edited by VonSenger on Sunday 4th January 20:29
Samjeev said:
What about the option of buying an NA Vx220 and getting it Supercharged, not sure on the costs but its hardly an un-heard of thing as afterall it is a GM motor with a GM supercharger which were designed to go together. Such a mod leaves you with roughly 230-250bhp if you go for the base stage 2 Supercharger conversion and gives you smoother power delivery for track driving (so they say).
Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
I'm doing this next. I've hear they are lighter? And the spool up time gets tiring after a while. Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
VonSenger said:
Samjeev said:
What about the option of buying an NA Vx220 and getting it Supercharged, not sure on the costs but its hardly an un-heard of thing as afterall it is a GM motor with a GM supercharger which were designed to go together. Such a mod leaves you with roughly 230-250bhp if you go for the base stage 2 Supercharger conversion and gives you smoother power delivery for track driving (so they say).
Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
I'm doing this next. I've hear they are lighter? And the spool up time gets tiring after a while. Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
Samjeev said:
Well they will be a bit lighter, the VXT is generally heavier than the NA model even with the supercharger i believe. Plenty of information about it on the owners forum and a few members have DIY'd there supercharger conversions with great success and some members even offer the service itself which works out cheaper than getting it done by the usual tuning shops.
Makes sense :-) OP, have a look at the vx forum, you'll find modded cars which may work out cheaper.VonSenger said:
Samjeev said:
What about the option of buying an NA Vx220 and getting it Supercharged, not sure on the costs but its hardly an un-heard of thing as afterall it is a GM motor with a GM supercharger which were designed to go together. Such a mod leaves you with roughly 230-250bhp if you go for the base stage 2 Supercharger conversion and gives you smoother power delivery for track driving (so they say).
Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
I'm doing this next. I've hear they are lighter? And the spool up time gets tiring after a while. Otherwise do some man maths to afford a turbo? I wouldn't be worried about a Cat C or D either.
P.S this is coming from a Cat D VXT owner who does track days
I'd even dare to say they are becoming 'trendy' (there's the death nail) now that the cull is worse than ever due to low prices and inexperience killing them all off
Cant pass comment between the two cars as ive never driven a 986.
However if you do go down the VX route as Turbo owner if i had my time again i would pic up a well documented Cat C/D NA. Plenty cars out there with Cat status for the slightest knocks due to clam/light prices.
Id then self fit a SC but there are a couple of well respected chaps doing the conversions on the vx220.org for a very sensible amount. Would end up costing about the same as a CAT turbo and SC is probably the only modification in the world that pretty much pays its way come resale time.
Spool up times / lag is barely noticeable on the turbo and the torque down low is very impressive - throttle response on the NA / SC is better though.
I will probably end up with an SC car one day but certainly in no rush as i still love my Turbo, best bet is to try both. Plenty guys have switched from NA -> Turbo and prefer it.
However if you do go down the VX route as Turbo owner if i had my time again i would pic up a well documented Cat C/D NA. Plenty cars out there with Cat status for the slightest knocks due to clam/light prices.
Id then self fit a SC but there are a couple of well respected chaps doing the conversions on the vx220.org for a very sensible amount. Would end up costing about the same as a CAT turbo and SC is probably the only modification in the world that pretty much pays its way come resale time.
Spool up times / lag is barely noticeable on the turbo and the torque down low is very impressive - throttle response on the NA / SC is better though.
I will probably end up with an SC car one day but certainly in no rush as i still love my Turbo, best bet is to try both. Plenty guys have switched from NA -> Turbo and prefer it.
I'd prefer a SC NA but over the last few weeks the NA's and Turbo's have pretty much been advertised at same figures.
From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
jassihayre said:
I'd prefer a SC NA but over the last few weeks the NA's and Turbo's have pretty much been advertised at same figures.
From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
I'd have thought that would be fairly clear cut, no?From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Monday 5th January 00:49
i would wager the vxt out of the two.
i recently bought an s2 elise with the 190bhp toyota engine and 6-speed box. i have been both delighted and surprised by it. the ride and handling is fantastic, steering is the best i've ever experienced and high speed stability is far in excess of what i imagined it to be. its my daily driver and so easy to live with yet goes like stink [with handling to match] when you need it - ON ROAD! i've only ever had a quick go in a boxster but they are completely different cars.
however……
i would need to spend several thousand £plus to get the elise where i would want it for track use. i did a track day on friday in both the elise and my clio cup racer [caged, slicks, sequential box, neil brown engine] and the clio at 60% of the purchase price just wipes the floor with the elise. so much more fun and twice as capable. this despite the only fancy thing on the clio being the gearbox. brakes are oem, dampers are single adjust bilsteins etc.
depends what you want out of a track car but i found i could't drive above 7/10 in my road car. the clio on the other hand i grab by the scruff of its neck and go as fast as my abilities allow. in the elise other track users got way too close for comfort, in the clio i could barely have got a fag paper between my front bumper and their rear. i guess uk track days are a lot more restrictive in that regard though.
my opinion is therefore it depends on how many track days you're doing and what you want from them. if you're ok with a stripped car for daily use i'd perhaps look at something cheaper like a fisher fury which can be fitted with fully adjustable suspension, big brakes and run slicks on track. put the money you save towards a repair fund [haven;t ever done a track day and not needed to repair/replace something!] or a cheap daily runaround for when your mood will not be improved by commuting in a reverberating hotbox.
i recently bought an s2 elise with the 190bhp toyota engine and 6-speed box. i have been both delighted and surprised by it. the ride and handling is fantastic, steering is the best i've ever experienced and high speed stability is far in excess of what i imagined it to be. its my daily driver and so easy to live with yet goes like stink [with handling to match] when you need it - ON ROAD! i've only ever had a quick go in a boxster but they are completely different cars.
however……
i would need to spend several thousand £plus to get the elise where i would want it for track use. i did a track day on friday in both the elise and my clio cup racer [caged, slicks, sequential box, neil brown engine] and the clio at 60% of the purchase price just wipes the floor with the elise. so much more fun and twice as capable. this despite the only fancy thing on the clio being the gearbox. brakes are oem, dampers are single adjust bilsteins etc.
depends what you want out of a track car but i found i could't drive above 7/10 in my road car. the clio on the other hand i grab by the scruff of its neck and go as fast as my abilities allow. in the elise other track users got way too close for comfort, in the clio i could barely have got a fag paper between my front bumper and their rear. i guess uk track days are a lot more restrictive in that regard though.
my opinion is therefore it depends on how many track days you're doing and what you want from them. if you're ok with a stripped car for daily use i'd perhaps look at something cheaper like a fisher fury which can be fitted with fully adjustable suspension, big brakes and run slicks on track. put the money you save towards a repair fund [haven;t ever done a track day and not needed to repair/replace something!] or a cheap daily runaround for when your mood will not be improved by commuting in a reverberating hotbox.
jassihayre said:
I'd prefer a SC NA but over the last few weeks the NA's and Turbo's have pretty much been advertised at same figures.
From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
If your looking at it from a pure BHP/Ton perspective then for a very reasonable amount a precat removal and mild remap will see you to around 230 (and a chunk more torque) on a VXT which is something not possible on a £/bhp basis on the Boxster.From various posts it seems you can drop around 100kg from the Boxster relatively easily so would get around 250 / 1.20 = 208 BHP/TON which is identical to a standard VXT - 195 / .93 = 209 BHP/TON.
Not sure which car would have the better handling, steering feel and fun factor though.
handling, steering feel and fun factor are all subjective so getting a drive in both is key but the general consensus around the s2 chassis and lack of power steering would probably swing it towards the VX on paper.
shirt said:
i would wager the vxt out of the two.
i recently bought an s2 elise with the 190bhp toyota engine and 6-speed box. i have been both delighted and surprised by it. the ride and handling is fantastic, steering is the best i've ever experienced and high speed stability is far in excess of what i imagined it to be. its my daily driver and so easy to live with yet goes like stink [with handling to match] when you need it - ON ROAD! i've only ever had a quick go in a boxster but they are completely different cars.
however……
i would need to spend several thousand £plus to get the elise where i would want it for track use. i did a track day on friday in both the elise and my clio cup racer [caged, slicks, sequential box, neil brown engine] and the clio at 60% of the purchase price just wipes the floor with the elise. so much more fun and twice as capable. this despite the only fancy thing on the clio being the gearbox. brakes are oem, dampers are single adjust bilsteins etc.
depends what you want out of a track car but i found i could't drive above 7/10 in my road car. the clio on the other hand i grab by the scruff of its neck and go as fast as my abilities allow. in the elise other track users got way too close for comfort, in the clio i could barely have got a fag paper between my front bumper and their rear. i guess uk track days are a lot more restrictive in that regard though.
my opinion is therefore it depends on how many track days you're doing and what you want from them. if you're ok with a stripped car for daily use i'd perhaps look at something cheaper like a fisher fury which can be fitted with fully adjustable suspension, big brakes and run slicks on track. put the money you save towards a repair fund [haven;t ever done a track day and not needed to repair/replace something!] or a cheap daily runaround for when your mood will not be improved by commuting in a reverberating hotbox.
I did something very similar (S2 Exige to ex-Paul Rivett Clio) but the comparison is hardly fair. A road car to a properly built race car is always going to show up the road car's compromises, however focuses it might be.i recently bought an s2 elise with the 190bhp toyota engine and 6-speed box. i have been both delighted and surprised by it. the ride and handling is fantastic, steering is the best i've ever experienced and high speed stability is far in excess of what i imagined it to be. its my daily driver and so easy to live with yet goes like stink [with handling to match] when you need it - ON ROAD! i've only ever had a quick go in a boxster but they are completely different cars.
however……
i would need to spend several thousand £plus to get the elise where i would want it for track use. i did a track day on friday in both the elise and my clio cup racer [caged, slicks, sequential box, neil brown engine] and the clio at 60% of the purchase price just wipes the floor with the elise. so much more fun and twice as capable. this despite the only fancy thing on the clio being the gearbox. brakes are oem, dampers are single adjust bilsteins etc.
depends what you want out of a track car but i found i could't drive above 7/10 in my road car. the clio on the other hand i grab by the scruff of its neck and go as fast as my abilities allow. in the elise other track users got way too close for comfort, in the clio i could barely have got a fag paper between my front bumper and their rear. i guess uk track days are a lot more restrictive in that regard though.
my opinion is therefore it depends on how many track days you're doing and what you want from them. if you're ok with a stripped car for daily use i'd perhaps look at something cheaper like a fisher fury which can be fitted with fully adjustable suspension, big brakes and run slicks on track. put the money you save towards a repair fund [haven;t ever done a track day and not needed to repair/replace something!] or a cheap daily runaround for when your mood will not be improved by commuting in a reverberating hotbox.
It's not like you could ever use a Clio Cup race car on the road.
For me, the best compromise of road and track car has always been the Lotus chassis, given you get the geometry spot on and fit decent tyres for the conditions (ie. not AO48s in the depths of winter).
Brakes on a VX220 are much cheaper, a Boxster's disks alone are £600 IIRC... then there's the risk of engine failure etc on the Porsche.
If you go for the VX220 I would recommend getting the geo setup to get rid of the understeer - the 340R settings are good. Other mods (that I haven't done) are changing the wheels for 16" fronts - this way you aren't tied to one tyre and can fit wider fronts for better braking (fronts lock up very easily in the wet).
For 9k you are unlikely to get a turbo, an NA would be a better option. But as neither really depreciate, the initial cost is not that relevant.
If you go for the VX220 I would recommend getting the geo setup to get rid of the understeer - the 340R settings are good. Other mods (that I haven't done) are changing the wheels for 16" fronts - this way you aren't tied to one tyre and can fit wider fronts for better braking (fronts lock up very easily in the wet).
For 9k you are unlikely to get a turbo, an NA would be a better option. But as neither really depreciate, the initial cost is not that relevant.
Mark Benson said:
I did something very similar (S2 Exige to ex-Paul Rivett Clio) but the comparison is hardly fair. A road car to a properly built race car is always going to show up the road car's compromises, however focuses it might be.
It's not like you could ever use a Clio Cup race car on the road.
For me, the best compromise of road and track car has always been the Lotus chassis, given you get the geometry spot on and fit decent tyres for the conditions (ie. not AO48s in the depths of winter).
i agree but what i was trying to say is that even a vxt/elise is [imho] not amazing on track so if the OP is biased towards track use there are other better/cheaper options. It's not like you could ever use a Clio Cup race car on the road.
For me, the best compromise of road and track car has always been the Lotus chassis, given you get the geometry spot on and fit decent tyres for the conditions (ie. not AO48s in the depths of winter).
For the type of use you're going to give it i'd definitely go for the VX. I had a 986 S and it was great as a daily drive and fun for a B-road blast but not ideal for track stuff as it was a little soft.
for me the good points were:
Handling Balance
Engine (other than the constant fear of it exploding)
Brakes, thought they're expensive to replace and don't last all that long
practical, between the two boots you can fit in a lot of stuff
it broke a lot and was generally pretty expensive to fix, also the gearing is far too long which IMO really hampered the performance and excitement of driving it
for me the good points were:
Handling Balance
Engine (other than the constant fear of it exploding)
Brakes, thought they're expensive to replace and don't last all that long
practical, between the two boots you can fit in a lot of stuff
it broke a lot and was generally pretty expensive to fix, also the gearing is far too long which IMO really hampered the performance and excitement of driving it
The Elise/VX220 isn't particularly good on track as standard - it's set up entirely for road use so it's rather soft and wallowy on track. It's easy to make one into a pretty competent track car but it's never going to be as much fun as something like a Caterham - it's just too heavy. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff