Anyone explain this HUGE Porsche accident
Discussion
I was in a trio of cars going to a Porsche meet today. Car in front, 944 Turbo - coming down a v slight slope, dual carriageway, initially moves as if he's going to go from the outside lane back into the inside lane. The rear end starts to slide to his right - ie towards the central reservation. He tries to correct by turning his wheel to the right (steering into the skid) - i didn't see what exactly happended next but he piled straight into a stationary car waiting to turn left onto the dual carriageway (ie went across the inside lane and then far enough over to hit the stationary car on its rear door).
Luckily, both him and the stationary car drivers were wearing belts - bruising only but could have been a lot lot nastier. Both cars written off.
The road was very very slightly damp. Only explanation i can think of is Diesel. How else can a 944 slide when going straight - and not accelerating hard - just moving from outside lane to inside lane. That move can't be big enough to result in a slide!
Cheers
Luckily, both him and the stationary car drivers were wearing belts - bruising only but could have been a lot lot nastier. Both cars written off.
The road was very very slightly damp. Only explanation i can think of is Diesel. How else can a 944 slide when going straight - and not accelerating hard - just moving from outside lane to inside lane. That move can't be big enough to result in a slide!
Cheers
About 6 weeks ago I got a HUGE slide coming out of a junction in my 944 turbo. Put the power down in third gear, only slightly damp, but when the boost came in the car fishtailed right, corrected it, came off the gas & got it in a straight line again.
It was my fault though - the offside wheels were on the central road markings, where there's no grip, so I lost grip on the rear offside wheel when putting down the power.
IIRC, Nigel Mansell once lost a GP at Monaco when he did the exact same thing, in a Lotus. Put the power down at Casino Square (I think), rear offside lost traction *just* as the turbo cut in, and off he went...
Not that I'm making any parallels between myself & Mansell. I don't have a silly moustache for starters...
It was my fault though - the offside wheels were on the central road markings, where there's no grip, so I lost grip on the rear offside wheel when putting down the power.
IIRC, Nigel Mansell once lost a GP at Monaco when he did the exact same thing, in a Lotus. Put the power down at Casino Square (I think), rear offside lost traction *just* as the turbo cut in, and off he went...
Not that I'm making any parallels between myself & Mansell. I don't have a silly moustache for starters...
I think the central road markings/cats eyes had something to do with this incident. Maybe the fronts lost grip when they went over the cats eyes/lines, coupled with a slight down hill and slight left bend, the rear started to come around.
Made me rethink the benefits of PSM etc thats for sure. (Been looking for a GT3).
Cheers!
Made me rethink the benefits of PSM etc thats for sure. (Been looking for a GT3).
Cheers!
Who knows what happened, but my first Porker was a 944S2. It seemed to be affected by white lines and man hole covers, so it was like trying to ride a motorbike again and avoid them...I'd forgotten how many manhole covers are on the perfect line thru a corner....;-)
Under gentle braking for traffic lights, my wife had the front wheels go on to full RH lock in a straight line because the FOS wheel was on a solid white line....
Trust all OK.
Rgds
Mel
Under gentle braking for traffic lights, my wife had the front wheels go on to full RH lock in a straight line because the FOS wheel was on a solid white line....
Trust all OK.
Rgds
Mel
Mansell put a wheel on the white line and the change in grip threw him off the road a matter of a lap or so from the race being called off IIRC. He was up for a podium finish wasn't he? I watched the race on TV and for some reason recall it being nearer St Devote - but I could very well be totally wrong.
It was the first time he'd really shown what he was capable of.
It was the first time he'd really shown what he was capable of.
singh911 said:
The road was very very slightly damp. Only explanation i can think of is Diesel. How else can a 944 slide when going straight - and not accelerating hard - just moving from outside lane to inside lane. That move can't be big enough to result in a slide!
Typical 944 behaviour though, especially if it's a turbo.
A LOT of 944s have been written off because of such road conditions. They just hate damp surfaces.
The car was not accelerating at the time.
I always thought that 944s had great weight distribution so should be really stable. Whats the thinking on damp surfaces and 944s?
Thankfully both drivers are fine - lots of bruising though (& no sleep cos the incident keeps playing over and over in my mind....I was right behind the 944 and I can recall it as if it were in slow motion!).
Cheers
I always thought that 944s had great weight distribution so should be really stable. Whats the thinking on damp surfaces and 944s?
Thankfully both drivers are fine - lots of bruising though (& no sleep cos the incident keeps playing over and over in my mind....I was right behind the 944 and I can recall it as if it were in slow motion!).
Cheers
caused by the damp greasy surface and white lines, i'd say. i spun my 924S a while back (won't say where) but it was joining a dual carriageway from a sharp slip road, going too quick into the bend where normally i'd go round at xx mph, not that day, had been raining after a dry spell and round i went, facing backwards even after corrective action. red face and some £££ lighter to repair the bent undertray. oooops.
bad driving by me, ie, should have taken account of the damp surface even with limited power and 50/50 weight......
bad driving by me, ie, should have taken account of the damp surface even with limited power and 50/50 weight......
Certainly sounds like driver error. It amazes me how fast people drive in damp conditions when that is worst surface to drive on, all the oil, grease, bogeys and chewing gum sit on top of the water and act as a great lubricant between the road and your tyres. In the rain they all get washed away and you have much better contact, (until the point where the tyre aquaplanes). We usually set faster lap times in wet rather than in "damp" conditions.
Once traction is lost then physics sets in and 1500kgs at 80 mph equals a fair chunk of momentum.
As to the initial cause of the swerve only the driver will know but he must have done something, a car will not skid round on a straight line unless it`s affected by an external force. Turning, accelerating / decelerating, tyre problems, side winds, suspension failure etc. If I was a betting man I`d say your man simply turned left too violently and upset the balance of the car, the back end then decided to go straight when the front went left and the rest is history. He may have even worstened the situation by planting his foot on the gas just to make sure those rear wheels really were spinning rather than gripping the road.
Henry
Once traction is lost then physics sets in and 1500kgs at 80 mph equals a fair chunk of momentum.
As to the initial cause of the swerve only the driver will know but he must have done something, a car will not skid round on a straight line unless it`s affected by an external force. Turning, accelerating / decelerating, tyre problems, side winds, suspension failure etc. If I was a betting man I`d say your man simply turned left too violently and upset the balance of the car, the back end then decided to go straight when the front went left and the rest is history. He may have even worstened the situation by planting his foot on the gas just to make sure those rear wheels really were spinning rather than gripping the road.
Henry
rubystone said:
Mansell put a wheel on the white line and the change in grip threw him off the road a matter of a lap or so from the race being called off IIRC. He was up for a podium finish wasn't he? I watched the race on TV and for some reason recall it being nearer St Devote - but I could very well be totally wrong.
It was the first time he'd really shown what he was capable of.
Yes, thinking about it, maybe it was. He was coming up the hill towards Casino square, where it curves around to the left, had clipped the apex on the inside left & the car was moving over to the right. The offside rear got onto the white line & the car jerked to the right & straight into the barriers. I think it may have been 1987, which would have been the year that Senna got his first win there.
As for showing what he was capable of, I'm sure he moaned a lot after his cock-up, and probably blamed some technical problem in the car, which he did a lot... Really a lot... Remember when he blew the GP win at Canada???
rubystone said:
Much earlier than 1987 - 1982 more likely. Your recollection of the shunt is accurate though 
He may have been a moaner but hey what a ballsy driver - we need more like him on th F1 grid and that's why Massa and Sato deserve their places
I absolutely agree, his move on Piquet in the British GP (1987?) was stunning, and he had gonads of steel. But, unfortunately, he tainted his aura by given the reputation as a moaner.
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