Smoke and hissing.

[Tri2Tri]

All was going well, I drive the car everyday and it performed fantastic over the last few months however.....
On a drive last night I noticed steam coming through the bonnet vents so pulled over. On inspection it appeared that the blow off valve in the header tank(blue cap) had gone as steam was pouring out of there, I could not see steam coming from anywhere else.
The engine has the right amount of oil and water before the journey as it was checked a few days previous, on seeing the steam coming out the bonnet vents the water temp rose sharply from 90 to 130. I let the car cool right down before driving the car steady for the last mile home.
I bought a new blue cap today and more anti freeze ready for a simple job but oh no.....
I warmed the car up to around 70 degrees after putting more water in the header tank as I could not open the swirl pot filler cap so though I would warm the engine to hopefully loosen it.
Once the temp got to around 70 i noticed what was either steam/oil smoke coming from close to the rear nearside spark plug then the rear off side spark plug. As the car had stood over night in rain I thought this may just be condensation/standing water around the manifold but it never stopped and i could see drops of something...water or oil...every now and again dropping onto the manifold by the rear nearside spark plug....I got a mirror out to see if i could see were it was coming from but could not. I turned the engine off and I could hear a hissing sound near the front of the engine close to the water pump that went on for about 5 minutes after I turned the engine off, again i used a light and mirror but could not pin point were this was coming from.
I have checked the floor under the car and nothing has been dumped out.
I am fearing the worst.....Any ideas guys.

[phazed]

Possible head gaskets?

You may have lost water and then it overheated , possibly causing head gasket failure.

it is possible that the heads were not torqued properly in the first place.

[Tri2Tri]

That sounds expensive....
I tackle most jobs around the ancillaries and the likes but the engine block frightens me, looks like a garage job then......

[Goaty Bill 2]

While it does not initially sound promising, I would work at getting the cooling system properly filled and bled of air.
A partially filled cooling system will overheat quite rapidly in these cars, in my experience.

Try properly filling the system.
Don't bother with anti-freeze (assuming you are not expecting sub-freezing conditions imminently), as it could be a waste of money, and will do the bearings no good whatsoever.
You will have to get that swirl pot screw cap off, and the radiator top screw for bleeding to be sure you get to within a litre or so of full. There are few other options I am aware of, and the others would be messier.

It would also be a good idea to check the oil for obvious signs of water, like turning a sludgy brown colour.

Best of luck.

[WOO5IE]

If you have lost a lot of water then you cannot refil via the expansion tank it has to be via the swirl tank. Always have the heater turned to hot as well when refilling.

I get the brass nut off with a large slot of by using a large screw driver sideways in the slot or a wood chisel that has a flat blade sideways so getting a lot more torque. Its easy then , but be careful of it slipping. If when re-filled you should be able to see where the water is escaping from if you let it idle. Check water pump and hoses before suspecting head gasket. System would likely pressurise very quickly if head gasket has blown.

Good Luck

[QBee]

My TVR guy uses a socket with a half inch wide screwdriver blade, used in a ratchet. bit like a socket spanner......

[davelittlewood]

If you've cooked the cylinders then you need to check the that you haven't got a liner coming loose.

I had to get mine done a few years ago.

If the head gaskets have gone then it's worth checking the cylinders. Trouble is I don't know how you can check them with out taking them out??

Anyhow, good luck.

Dave

[TJC46]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

While it does not initially sound promising, I would work at getting the cooling system properly filled and bled of air.
A partially filled cooling system will overheat quite rapidly in these cars, in my experience.

Try properly filling the system.
Don't bother with anti-freeze (assuming you are not expecting sub-freezing conditions imminently), as it could be a waste of money, and will do the bearings no good whatsoever.
You will have to get that swirl pot screw cap off, and the radiator top screw for bleeding to be sure you get to within a litre or so of full. There are few other options I am aware of, and the others would be messier.

It would also be a good idea to check the oil for obvious signs of water, like turning a sludgy brown colour.

Best of luck.

All of the above

With a bit of luck the head gaskets may be ok. It sounds as though you may have been losing a small amount of coolant, over quite a long time period.

When they loose coolant in small amounts, all this does is allows air into the system, which then constantly pushes some of the remaining coolant into the header tank. Check when every thing is cool and there will always be water in the header tank.......just decreasing amounts within the engine block, until it lets go as yours has done.

Coolant loss becomes obvious in summer as the temp goes high and stays there. In winter this is not so obvious until it suddenly goes, just as you describe.

2 coolant loss points both difficult to see.

1st one tiny pin holes in the radiator. The water leaks, slowly and collects out of sight under the rad.Typical engine bay temps soon evaporate this so every time you check.......no obvious sign!

2 nd. typical coolant loss point which is difficult to see, is under the inlet manifold, where the valley gasket is. Loss of coolant here from one or both cylinder heads collects in the valley and usually disperses at the back of the engine onto the bell housing, but with very little sign of it on the floor under the car.

If the engine was as hot as you say then all hose connections etc should be inspected.Check the oil for possible water contamination and level.

Totally drain and refill the cooling system. You can fill thru the swirl pot, or on the drivers side, there is a small hose, from one of the heater pipes that goes into the inlet manifold. Remove from the pipe and loosen the clip on the manifold. Turn the hose thru 90 degrees , so you can place a filling spout in it and tighten the clip on the manifold. Refill the system thru this spout, but as you do, vent the radiator until coolant only comes out.Keep filling and watch as eventually the expansion tank level will start to rise.

This is an excellent way of filling the cooling system as you are filling from a height at least 4 to 6 inches higher than the swirl tank.
I had a few cooling problems, including filling/bleeding the system the "right" way. But using the above method, with the heater matrix open, [or switch set to hot] you really do shift all of the air.

Good luck and hope you have not done too much damage.

Edited by TJC46 on Wednesday 7th January 20:38

Edited by TJC46 on Wednesday 7th January 20:39

[Tri2Tri]

Guys. A big thank you for all you help and advice. I will make a start tomorrow with refilling the cooling system properly and also checking the oil for signs of sludge, could the dip stick provide enough info for this ?
One thing I have noticed is what looks like new greenish water marks/stains in the top corners of the radiator, they are only small marks but look fresh so wondering if that could be the cause of the problem.
I will report back with my findings once completed.

[rickprice]

For the swirl pot, you can get a number of alternative brass screws that have standard hexagonal heads.

I can't remember where I got mine from but I think it was an oil sump plug for a Landie, costing a couple of quid. I found by searching on pistonheads.

Revolutionised the top-up process and no more clumsy moments with large files, screwdrivers etc.



Rich

[Goaty Bill 2]

I have been using a tool something like this one for years for removing the little beggar;


The harder you have to pull, the harder it grips.
Not something you'd want to use on your chrome bits, but for the swirl pot screw it works a treat.

[Hedgehopper]

Here you go..........

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-p...

[Sardonicus]

Did my homework ages ago, Phazed as one too

[phazed]

Sardonicus said:

Did my homework ages ago, Phazed as one too

Much nicer item, looks the part rather then off a model steam engine......

[Tri2Tri]

Hedgehopper thanks for the link....part ordered. Could not get out to work on it today so will get stuck in tomorrow. Defoe looks like a radiator re core is needed as I'm sure that's were the coolant has been sneakily escaping from.

[Tri2Tri]

I will keep this post updated as it may be of help to someone with similar issues.
I had topped up the coolant level fully via the swirl pot allowing air to escape from the radiator bleed valve then a final top up in the swirl tank to maximum, this was with the heater setting to hot.
I rigged up a pressure tester with a electric tyre inflator connecting this to the swirl pot overflow via a short piece of brake hose I had laying around. I put 13psi into the system. This way I didn't have to have the engine running getting my hands burnt on manifolds or cut off by the ancillary belt.
Now I could see were the water was coming from. A loose jubilee clip on the water pump hose another loose jubilee on the bottom rad hose and there was a cut in the swirl pot overflow hose that the jubilee clip had cause. Needless to say the pressure on the tyre inflator gauge dropped quite quickly. After amending these three issues I re pressurised and now the gauge showed it held pressure for a good 10 mins. Also the leak to the rear of the engine block stopped so my thoughts were the water pump hose leak was somehow finding its way to the rear of the engine before dripping to the floor.
Next up was to check the head gasket with a block tester I bought off the 'bay. Blue liquid turns yellow if hydrocarbons are found in the coolant......the test remained solid blue.....a big relief !
So finally the search was on to find the initial cause. The jubilee clips gave way due to the pressure steam had caused due to lack of coolant in the system and as these issues with water leaks were not there before then I didn't see this as the root cause. So next up was to check the radiator.
Root problem found. A small leak to the back of the radiator that I had not noticed. Once the engine was up to temperature you could see a faint steam coming from the bottom corner. This had overtime, drained the system of coolant.
Radiator out today and will be finding a place to have it recored as soon as. anyone know of a recore place in the Berkshire area?

[Colin RedGriff]

Thanks for posting your results. Always good/useful to hear how things have been resolved

[phazed]

You need a nice ally radiator from AAron Radiators.

http://www.aaronradiator.co.uk/products/Radiator_T...

[Goaty Bill 2]

phazed said:

Sardonicus said:

Did my homework ages ago, Phazed as one too

Much nicer item, looks the part rather then off a model steam engine......

I quite like the model steam engine look!

Colin RedGriff said:

Thanks for posting your results. Always good/useful to hear how things have been resolved

+1
Always good to hear results, and glad to hear that while 'serious' and not cheap, it amounts to a simple component change rather than a nasty big rebuild or some other engine out job.

phazed said:

You need a nice ally radiator from AAron Radiators.

http://www.aaronradiator.co.uk/products/Radiator_T...

Or alternatively; Reconditioned Radiator

I have to admit though, I do like the bigger than standard aluminium radiator too.

ETA:
That recon unit (assuming one is available) is probably well within driving to collect range for you as well.

Edited by Goaty Bill 2 on Tuesday 20th January 17:53

[s p a c e m a n]

phazed said:

You need a nice ally radiator from AAron Radiators.

http://www.aaronradiator.co.uk/products/Radiator_T...

+1. Phone them up and ask for the pistonheads discount, got a good few quid off