National Service
Discussion
Bring it back for 17-18 year olds. I think it would solve many problems faced by today's youth (including teaching some chavs a thing or two about respect and discipline).
Totally compatible with European Law AFAIK, and a massive vote winner.
It would also solve many problems with obesity, once you're used to running up and down hills, and being in excellent physical condition, you don't tend to start eating the pies again.
Totally compatible with European Law AFAIK, and a massive vote winner.
It would also solve many problems with obesity, once you're used to running up and down hills, and being in excellent physical condition, you don't tend to start eating the pies again.
I think that a better method is to surrender your human rights, whilst on the dole. This would be good for "Chain Gang" clean up squads for the good of the community. The girls could either do this or opt for a contraceptive injection.
That would sort the problem out and a few more as well.
We pretty much live in a police state anyway, so we may as well live in a fascist police state. (Do we?)
The chain gangs would give back much needed morale to the jobless.
That would sort the problem out and a few more as well.
We pretty much live in a police state anyway, so we may as well live in a fascist police state. (Do we?)
The chain gangs would give back much needed morale to the jobless.
It will never happen. The powers that be are more than aware of the dangers inherent in 'tooling and training' the 'inner-city milita'. This is not like the 'good 'ol days' when people could be galvanised by a sense of civic pride and nationhood (a.k.a.patriotism)... Welcome to New Britain.
The initial post spoke about bringing back national service - but not what form it might take. We don't want or need to train anybody to kill. For volunteers joining the regular forces that's appropriate but not for an alternative form of national service which could entail fitness and discipline elements without the firearms or unarmed combat element. There could also be community service aspects, litter and vandalism being suitable targets. Not sure about the injection stuff, without it the rest sounds good - and what objection could I have to my offspring taking part, they know I already volunteered for the whole enchilada some time ago.
turbobloke said:
The initial post spoke about bringing back national service - but not what form it might take. We don't want or need to train anybody to kill. For volunteers joining the regular forces that's appropriate but not for an alternative form of national service which could entail fitness and discipline elements without the firearms or unarmed combat element. There could also be community service aspects, litter and vandalism being suitable targets. Not sure about the injection stuff, without it the rest sounds good - and what objection could I have to my offspring taking part, they know I already volunteered for the whole enchilada some time ago.
that'll be pe at school then
parrot of doom said:
Bring it back for 17-18 year olds. I think it would solve many problems faced by today's youth (including teaching some chavs a thing or two about respect and discipline).
Yeah, string 'em up. Bloody youth of today don't know they're born. In my day we walked 150 miles to school etc.
Personally national service would have made studying for my A Levels significantly more difficult.
How would you feel if your 17 year old daughter was killed on national service?
Sorry to be a bit glib about it but I can't accept that universal national service can possibly be any kind of answer. I do think there is a great deal of merit in offering the army as an alternative to jail for offenders who are "going off the rails" though.
I'm not a great fan of the notion that National Service is a cure all for problems with disaffected youth. Certainly, National Service as it was in the UK up to 1960(?) is totally out of the question anyway these days - there's no Empire to police for a start.
However, many European countries (The Netherlands, Sweden etc) seem to have something along NS lines which seems to fit in with a more modern concept of what NS might entail.
However, many European countries (The Netherlands, Sweden etc) seem to have something along NS lines which seems to fit in with a more modern concept of what NS might entail.
Yeah and if it was reinstated, how long before some geezer is on here, bleating that their dahling cuthbert is too precious to be mixing with these "yoofs" and s/he shoud be at prep school where "his/her" kind can relate... 
How would you feel if your own son daughter wsa made to do something they didn't want to...?
How would you feel if your own son daughter wsa made to do something they didn't want to...?
I am in favour of National Service, but not as a military service - this would not be a good idea and would be disasterous for the army.
I would be in favour of 12 months community service - this would have many benefits, not least the teaching and development of skills, respect for property and others, and a broadening of horizons for many.
Most importantly, it may begin to make some people think that they are members of society and have a responsibility and role to play.
I would be in favour of 12 months community service - this would have many benefits, not least the teaching and development of skills, respect for property and others, and a broadening of horizons for many.
Most importantly, it may begin to make some people think that they are members of society and have a responsibility and role to play.
birdbrain said:
I do think there is a great deal of merit in offering the army as an alternative to jail for offenders who are "going off the rails" though.
I've got a few doubts about that. Do we really want our country defended by criminals?
Not for murderers/rapists etc but the kind of persistant low level offending that we see so much of in this country.
I think that a spell in the armed forces can have benefits for these kind of people in terms of giving a sense of self-respect, respect for others and discipline but it would have to be by choice.
I should have added a disclaimer that this should be in conjunction with more appropriate sentencing for persistant offenders as obviously nobody would sign up for a 2 year stretch in the army if the alternative was their 10th 6 month sentence for shoplifting.
The Armed Forces in the UK are having enough trouble with the calibre of volunteer recruits they are getting at the moment - under-educated, inarticulate and unfit. I was speaking only the other day to someone who is involved in assessinmg new recruits and he said the standards of the applicants was the worse he had ever seen.
You could of course, go down the US route and draft people from the socially disadvantaged classes and make exemption for middle class families. Not a good idea.
Finally, modern armies are good deal more technical than armies of the 40s and 50s. Imagine trying to train some of the "draftees" to use complicated missile tracking systems, targetting systems, communications sysytems, software, etc etc etc. The days of being told to march around a square all day and paint coal white are long gone.
You could of course, go down the US route and draft people from the socially disadvantaged classes and make exemption for middle class families. Not a good idea.
Finally, modern armies are good deal more technical than armies of the 40s and 50s. Imagine trying to train some of the "draftees" to use complicated missile tracking systems, targetting systems, communications sysytems, software, etc etc etc. The days of being told to march around a square all day and paint coal white are long gone.
birdbrain said:
I've got a few doubts about that. Do we really want our country defended by criminals?
It always used to be (The Napoleonic wars come to mind).
I am not in favour of National Service as such but a community service which effects benefits might be a way forward. There will though always be those that feel the world owes them a living - mayhap the education system prioritising an input the individual can make rather than the existing what you can get out of the world, might help (what can you do - rather than what do you want to be).
Jinx said:
I've got a few doubts about that. Do we really want our country defended by criminals?
It always used to be (The Napoleonic wars come to mind).
I am not in favour of National Service as such but a community service which effects benefits might be a way forward. There will though always be those that feel the world owes them a living - mayhap the education system prioritising an input the individual can make rather than the existing what you can get out of the world, might help (what can you do - rather than what do you want to be).
To paraphrase the immortal Bird and Fortune, "Do you want a bunch of sandalwearing, vegetarian sensitive types to sit down with Mr Dictator and have a friendly chat. No? Of course not. You want a bigger thug with a bigger stick, and that's where the army comes in."
(I say this as a chap that comes from a family with a lot of army history - that I sidestepped.)
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