Cheap SRAM road groupsets?
Discussion
Clearly if you're a bike manufacturer there's not much difference in price between Shimano and SRAM groupsets, and SRAM could even be a bit cheaper if Planet X are switching the bulk of their models over.
However, to the general public I can buy a new 11sp 105 gruppo for under £300 from any number of suppliers, but can't get the equivalent SRAM one for anywhere near that price as far as I see. Is Apex the equivalent of 105, I'm never quire sure but that's beside the point really.
My main bike runs Force 10sp and I'm planning a second bike build which I'd like to stick with SRAM (although I guess I'm going to have to run 11sp which means I can't use my spare wheels). However, for a self-build is seems like it's cost prohibitive and I might be forced down the Shimano route.
Any ideas?
However, to the general public I can buy a new 11sp 105 gruppo for under £300 from any number of suppliers, but can't get the equivalent SRAM one for anywhere near that price as far as I see. Is Apex the equivalent of 105, I'm never quire sure but that's beside the point really.
My main bike runs Force 10sp and I'm planning a second bike build which I'd like to stick with SRAM (although I guess I'm going to have to run 11sp which means I can't use my spare wheels). However, for a self-build is seems like it's cost prohibitive and I might be forced down the Shimano route.
Any ideas?
Personally I'd avoid SRAM. The missus went from Force (10sp) to Force 22 this time last year. I upgraded to Ultegra (11sp). SRAM is in the bin after lots of tuning and then the last straw of the crankset falling off mid-ride.... I had tightened it previously. The self-retaining bolt won't hold the tension.
I rode across the USA last year and both bikes built by me at the same time (Feb). I didn't have to touch Shimano other than change chain and cassette (same as SRAM) but every few weeks I had to re-tune SRAM. Oh... the Ultegra cassette was £40, the SRAM £70! I couldn't source a SRAM chain when over in the states from 3 shops in the area!
It is expensive and not as easy to get as Shimano. I also find it is more of a faff tuning the gears especially the yaw front derailleur. Her race bike is running SRAM Force 22 and that will be ditched in the near future - last year her 10sp FORCE rear derailleur sheared off mid-ride. I know others in my club who have ditched RED due to issues but don't have those details of why.
FYI I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 groupset which I got from a shop online ("famous wizard" cycles) for £470. That is a bargain!
I rode across the USA last year and both bikes built by me at the same time (Feb). I didn't have to touch Shimano other than change chain and cassette (same as SRAM) but every few weeks I had to re-tune SRAM. Oh... the Ultegra cassette was £40, the SRAM £70! I couldn't source a SRAM chain when over in the states from 3 shops in the area!
It is expensive and not as easy to get as Shimano. I also find it is more of a faff tuning the gears especially the yaw front derailleur. Her race bike is running SRAM Force 22 and that will be ditched in the near future - last year her 10sp FORCE rear derailleur sheared off mid-ride. I know others in my club who have ditched RED due to issues but don't have those details of why.
FYI I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 groupset which I got from a shop online ("famous wizard" cycles) for £470. That is a bargain!
I've not had a problem with the SRAM bits on my bike, and I prefer the mechanical feel of the shifters so I'm happy to take the chance on the quality of the product.
I just don't get why the kit is so expensive for a punter to buy when the bike makers can clearly pick it up much cheaper - the price I paid for my whole bike, carbon frame and forks, BB7 road brakes etc is only about £300 more than I'd have to pay for a Force groupset on its own, but an equivalent bike running 105 is the same kind of price but the groupset is half the price to buy.
I just don't get why the kit is so expensive for a punter to buy when the bike makers can clearly pick it up much cheaper - the price I paid for my whole bike, carbon frame and forks, BB7 road brakes etc is only about £300 more than I'd have to pay for a Force groupset on its own, but an equivalent bike running 105 is the same kind of price but the groupset is half the price to buy.
jamiebae said:
I've not had a problem with the SRAM bits on my bike, and I prefer the mechanical feel of the shifters so I'm happy to take the chance on the quality of the product.
I just don't get why the kit is so expensive for a punter to buy when the bike makers can clearly pick it up much cheaper - the price I paid for my whole bike, carbon frame and forks, BB7 road brakes etc is only about £300 more than I'd have to pay for a Force groupset on its own, but an equivalent bike running 105 is the same kind of price but the groupset is half the price to buy.
My guess would be economies of scale. I.e. bike OEMs can buy either at similar prices in bulk. Bike shops will probably tend to stock and indeed sell more Shimano groupsets, so will get a good price on them. Stocking less SRAM groupsets will mean higher purchase prices for them which are passed onto us.I just don't get why the kit is so expensive for a punter to buy when the bike makers can clearly pick it up much cheaper - the price I paid for my whole bike, carbon frame and forks, BB7 road brakes etc is only about £300 more than I'd have to pay for a Force groupset on its own, but an equivalent bike running 105 is the same kind of price but the groupset is half the price to buy.
PeteB0 said:
My guess would be economies of scale. I.e. bike OEMs can buy either at similar prices in bulk. Bike shops will probably tend to stock and indeed sell more Shimano groupsets, so will get a good price on them. Stocking less SRAM groupsets will mean higher purchase prices for them which are passed onto us.
I'm sure that's the case, it just seems strange that SRAM themselves don't seem to be trying to do anything about it. As the poster above states, parts can be more expensive and clearly the groupsets are more money too, but they sell them more cheaply to the bike builders. This means people are put off buying SRAM equipped bikes because of parts costs, and anyone self-building isn't going to consider them as like-for-like they're almost twice the price of Shimano. This isn't the case in MTB land so I don't understand why it is on planet-roadie.pablo said:
I'm still struggling with 11sp if I'm honest, for committed racers the closer ratios make sense, mere mortals should just MTFU. Shiny bikes have 10sp Apex for £300 and Rival for £400 which are good deals.
I really like close ratios, on flat long club rides it can be a godsend, my winter bike has a 12/30 cassette on the back on a compact, the gaps between gears drive me nuts. My other bikes have 26-12 with a 39/52 , which I much much much prefer. I find it so much more suited to my riding style. I love just going slightly down a notch for optimum cadence, esp on 100 mile + rides. None of the above are 11 speed, I like the idea of really close ratios with one "get you out of s
t on hills" gear at the topThat's me though,
TwistingMyMelon said:
I really like close ratios, on flat long club rides it can be a godsend, my winter bike has a 12/30 cassette on the back on a compact, the gaps between gears drive me nuts. My other bikes have 26-12 with a 39/52 , which I much much much prefer. I find it so much more suited to my riding style. I love just going slightly down a notch for optimum cadence, esp on 100 mile + rides.
None of the above are 11 speed, I like the idea of really close ratios with one "get you out of st on hills" gear at the top
That's me though,
Personally I prefer to go the other way - I'd rather have the range than closely stacked ratios although 11 speed helps give a bit of both.None of the above are 11 speed, I like the idea of really close ratios with one "get you out of s
t on hills" gear at the topThat's me though,
Compact with 11/32 on the winter bike and 11/28 on the summer.
Might be shifting to 52/36 on the summer bike If I can find a sensibly priced new 10 speed RED 52t chainring.
I have 10sp Force on my road bike and my CX has 10Sp 105 and as soon as I get on the Giant, I suddenly remember why I like the SRAM system more. I really like the downshifts. However, you really have be positive with your movements on the upshifts.
I'm hoping to get a Planet X Nanolight in the summer and I shall be aiming to sell the standard Rival 22 components and building it as a Force22 equipped bike.
I actually have Pablo to thank for my preference of the SRAM double tap. He let me have a go on his Cervelo and I thought 'this is cracking, I'm getting this for my Giant'
I remember reading an article listing what the pro tour teams were running and only two or three were running SRAM. The majority were running Shimano with Di2. I'm hoping the new SRAM wireless system will at least offer teams a bit more choice and maybe elevate SRAM a bit to where they were a few years ago when SRAM Red was considered to be one of the best mechanical groupsets out there. I know its a poor exsample, but I think Lance's later victories were on SRAM Red equipped bikes.
Edit: I've gone off topic a bit. Yes, the SRAM groupsets are expensive. Its purely because the market is flooded with Shimano. Plain and simple. Ultegra can be bought for sub £500, but you need at least £599 for Force. They say that Force is meant to be lighter than Ultegra. On my Giant, I didn't bother with the Force cassette and chain. I just had the basic chain and cassette and to be honest, I've never had any issues.
People also run Ultegra cassettes on SRAM Force or Rival systems too.
I'm hoping to get a Planet X Nanolight in the summer and I shall be aiming to sell the standard Rival 22 components and building it as a Force22 equipped bike.
I actually have Pablo to thank for my preference of the SRAM double tap. He let me have a go on his Cervelo and I thought 'this is cracking, I'm getting this for my Giant'
I remember reading an article listing what the pro tour teams were running and only two or three were running SRAM. The majority were running Shimano with Di2. I'm hoping the new SRAM wireless system will at least offer teams a bit more choice and maybe elevate SRAM a bit to where they were a few years ago when SRAM Red was considered to be one of the best mechanical groupsets out there. I know its a poor exsample, but I think Lance's later victories were on SRAM Red equipped bikes.
Edit: I've gone off topic a bit. Yes, the SRAM groupsets are expensive. Its purely because the market is flooded with Shimano. Plain and simple. Ultegra can be bought for sub £500, but you need at least £599 for Force. They say that Force is meant to be lighter than Ultegra. On my Giant, I didn't bother with the Force cassette and chain. I just had the basic chain and cassette and to be honest, I've never had any issues.
People also run Ultegra cassettes on SRAM Force or Rival systems too.
Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 8th January 21:21
http://www.wiggle.com/eastway-r40-apex-2013/
Maybe I just need to buy one of these instead, £360 plus VAT for a full Apex groupset, and the rest of the bike thrown in for free.
Maybe I just need to buy one of these instead, £360 plus VAT for a full Apex groupset, and the rest of the bike thrown in for free.
Rolls said:
I've got Rival on my new cross bike - what would be the next level up guys? is it force then red?
Yep that's it.TBH I wouldn't go above Rival for a cross bike - mine runs Apex.
Purely due to the cost of crash replacement - and the sheer wear and tear on components.
A new Apex rear mech is under £30 - a new RED has an RRP ten times that.
TheLemming said:
Yep that's it.
TBH I wouldn't go above Rival for a cross bike - mine runs Apex.
Purely due to the cost of crash replacement - and the sheer wear and tear on components.
A new Apex rear mech is under £30 - a new RED has an RRP ten times that.
This is pistonheads, so its a well known fact that Dura-Ace and Red will both actually melt in the winter TBH I wouldn't go above Rival for a cross bike - mine runs Apex.
Purely due to the cost of crash replacement - and the sheer wear and tear on components.
A new Apex rear mech is under £30 - a new RED has an RRP ten times that.
Agree with you on the crash side of things. I fell off my bike a week after I have my SRAM Force stuff fitted. I nearly cried. Thankfully the shifter still works, but its got a bit of a scuff on the top and just read 'ORCE' instead of 'FORCE' on top.
bakerstreet said:
This is pistonheads, so its a well known fact that Dura-Ace and Red will both actually melt in the winter Agree with you on the crash side of things.
I fell off my bike a week after I have my SRAM Force stuff fitted. I nearly cried. Thankfully the shifter still works, but its got a bit of a scuff on the top and just read 'ORCE' instead of 'FORCE' on top.
My Apex shifters are so scuffed and gouged I'm pretty sure I'd have broken carbon shifters in one of it's many terrain interfaces. Agree with you on the crash side of things. I fell off my bike a week after I have my SRAM Force stuff fitted. I nearly cried. Thankfully the shifter still works, but its got a bit of a scuff on the top and just read 'ORCE' instead of 'FORCE' on top.
Ironically one crashed into the perfect comfy position - so I had to move the other to match
I've replaced the rear mech twice, once destroyed crashing on ice on the road, the other offroad clouted a tree stump. On my second Fork too.
It's 12 months old.... CX bikes tend to get a lot of abuse!
RED and DA are lovely - but I cant afford to replace them frequently lol. I cant feel the difference between Rival and Apex - Apart from the (ally vs Carbon shifters) and have been slowly replacing the Rival on my Winter bike with Apex when replacement is needed.
TheLemming said:
My Apex shifters are so scuffed and gouged I'm pretty sure I'd have broken carbon shifters in one of it's many terrain interfaces.
Ironically one crashed into the perfect comfy position - so I had to move the other to match
I've replaced the rear mech twice, once destroyed crashing on ice on the road, the other offroad clouted a tree stump. On my second Fork too.
It's 12 months old.... CX bikes tend to get a lot of abuse!
RED and DA are lovely - but I cant afford to replace them frequently lol. I cant feel the difference between Rival and Apex - Apart from the (ally vs Carbon shifters) and have been slowly replacing the Rival on my Winter bike with Apex when replacement is needed.
I would be the same with Red and DA. Also, if either of my bikes are pinched they are within the limit of the house hold cover. Running DA or RED bikes would mean that the groupset would be more than one of my current bikes! Ironically one crashed into the perfect comfy position - so I had to move the other to match
I've replaced the rear mech twice, once destroyed crashing on ice on the road, the other offroad clouted a tree stump. On my second Fork too.
It's 12 months old.... CX bikes tend to get a lot of abuse!
RED and DA are lovely - but I cant afford to replace them frequently lol. I cant feel the difference between Rival and Apex - Apart from the (ally vs Carbon shifters) and have been slowly replacing the Rival on my Winter bike with Apex when replacement is needed.
I have ridden Rival and force and I really couldn't tell the difference between the shifts. I have friends who claim that Ultegra is much smoother than 105. I'd like to give them a bike with unbranded everything and see if they could tell the difference. All for my own amusement
Anyways, long live SRAM. I think its crqacking even if it is a bit pricier than Shimano. Also for what its worth, Force is considered to be lighter than Ultegra.
It will be interested to see how many of the pro teams take up SRAM's wireless system. Could it be enough to take the fight to Di2.
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