Anyone with a 944S?
Discussion
Hi There,
I have been a member on pistonheads for a while but lurked in the American car forum and have been a keen tunnel runner for a while...
After a spirited drive with a couple of 993 turbos an insane GT3 and and older 911 (964) turbo..its time I fulfilled my 944 itch before possibly a 964...
I am 90% convinced that I will purchase a 944 soon though and have been scouring the classifieds.
My budget is fairly limited to about 3.5k, however, as this is an additional car..
I find myself faced with the classic 944 8v vs 944s vs S2 (which exceeds my 3.5kish boundary).
I do have a slight NeedForSpeed and responsive driving and am leaning towards the 944S vs S2
mental debate because of this. Does anyone have any idea how much a head rebuild is on the 944S, how regularly is this done? I am guessing the the S2 is probably more favoured with the low down torque instantly available from increased displacement?
Just thinking out aloud
DeK
I have been a member on pistonheads for a while but lurked in the American car forum and have been a keen tunnel runner for a while...
After a spirited drive with a couple of 993 turbos an insane GT3 and and older 911 (964) turbo..its time I fulfilled my 944 itch before possibly a 964...
I am 90% convinced that I will purchase a 944 soon though and have been scouring the classifieds.
My budget is fairly limited to about 3.5k, however, as this is an additional car..
I find myself faced with the classic 944 8v vs 944s vs S2 (which exceeds my 3.5kish boundary).
I do have a slight NeedForSpeed and responsive driving and am leaning towards the 944S vs S2
mental debate because of this. Does anyone have any idea how much a head rebuild is on the 944S, how regularly is this done? I am guessing the the S2 is probably more favoured with the low down torque instantly available from increased displacement?
Just thinking out aloud
DeK
I've owned a Lux and an S2, and had a good day's driving in an S.
S2s are more a GT than the lighter, narrower-tyred Lux and S. They are faster, of course, but less nimble and I'd argue less fun as a weekend toy. Hugely accomplished, but I never feel I'm near it's abilities on real-life roads.
The S or the Lux would suit your budget better, as there are far more choices and you'll get the best, rather than the risk of a ropey S2 that could cost many thousands to get right.
Personally, I wouldn't choose the S, but would be happy if it was the right car with all the right work done and history. To drive, they are very peaky: you have to be in the right gear all the time, and use the revs. This took me a while to get used to, and it does catch you out when overtaking, on hills, that sort of thing. It's like driving with a very laggy turbo.
A Lux is as fast, but easier to use. Get one with refreshed brakes, suspension and tyres and it'll be a great car.
There are more experienced S owners on the PCGB forum as well, so worth asking there.
S2s are more a GT than the lighter, narrower-tyred Lux and S. They are faster, of course, but less nimble and I'd argue less fun as a weekend toy. Hugely accomplished, but I never feel I'm near it's abilities on real-life roads.
The S or the Lux would suit your budget better, as there are far more choices and you'll get the best, rather than the risk of a ropey S2 that could cost many thousands to get right.
Personally, I wouldn't choose the S, but would be happy if it was the right car with all the right work done and history. To drive, they are very peaky: you have to be in the right gear all the time, and use the revs. This took me a while to get used to, and it does catch you out when overtaking, on hills, that sort of thing. It's like driving with a very laggy turbo.
A Lux is as fast, but easier to use. Get one with refreshed brakes, suspension and tyres and it'll be a great car.
There are more experienced S owners on the PCGB forum as well, so worth asking there.
Hi Paul,
That's good to know. Thanks I really appreciate reading about your experience...
There are a couple of S2s just below the 4k mark but then there is a definite void / jump to 5k plus where most of the S2s are priced, so yes may be a bit dubious about the sub 4K one I saw... It apparently has FSH but I would like to see what exactly has been done and whether it has been done at the correct service interval etc.
I need to investigate the changes fromthe post 86 cars onwards, whether they handled any differently , increased weight etc. I have seen a couple of very nicely kept early cars with good sills etc
That's good to know. Thanks I really appreciate reading about your experience...
There are a couple of S2s just below the 4k mark but then there is a definite void / jump to 5k plus where most of the S2s are priced, so yes may be a bit dubious about the sub 4K one I saw... It apparently has FSH but I would like to see what exactly has been done and whether it has been done at the correct service interval etc.
I need to investigate the changes fromthe post 86 cars onwards, whether they handled any differently , increased weight etc. I have seen a couple of very nicely kept early cars with good sills etc
The main thing with the early cars is whether you like the interior or not. There's not much to choose between the oval-dash luxes other than buying the best condition.
Make sure to check the sills from the inside: the stoneguard paint traps any corrosion inside, so if there might be little or no sign on the outside. The rear suspension mounting area is also prone to rot.
I'd be wary of a cheap S2 unless you do the work yourself. Mine needed a brake overhaul that cost nearly £2K alone, and many jobs end up over a grand at an indie.
Make sure to check the sills from the inside: the stoneguard paint traps any corrosion inside, so if there might be little or no sign on the outside. The rear suspension mounting area is also prone to rot.
I'd be wary of a cheap S2 unless you do the work yourself. Mine needed a brake overhaul that cost nearly £2K alone, and many jobs end up over a grand at an indie.
Thanks Paul I will make sure I have a look at the S2 first before I decide..
I actually dont mind the early interiors...
This caught my eye:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111567541553
I have also seen a few 2,7s but hear that parts for those are few and far between and to steer clear
etc
I actually dont mind the early interiors...
This caught my eye:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111567541553
I have also seen a few 2,7s but hear that parts for those are few and far between and to steer clear
etc
That looks nice from the advert. They do tend to photograph well, though, so need a good going over. I'd like an interior pic as they look like sports seats.
One thing to ask the seller is to email pictures of the inside of the sills. The black vent in the door pillar comes out and you can take pictures of the weak spot at the rear of the sills.
So far as I'm aware, the only unique parts on a 2.7 are the valves. One set is about £100 each, but I don't think there's any reason to avoid them. They aren't worth a significant premium, as there is very little performance gain.
One thing to ask the seller is to email pictures of the inside of the sills. The black vent in the door pillar comes out and you can take pictures of the weak spot at the rear of the sills.
So far as I'm aware, the only unique parts on a 2.7 are the valves. One set is about £100 each, but I don't think there's any reason to avoid them. They aren't worth a significant premium, as there is very little performance gain.
kwittery)!I had an 8V "Lux" (sorry :P ) and have had good drives a 944 S2 and a 968 and I can echo the sentiment that the 8v can be more fun and you feel you are getting a lot out of it.
I guess like all car purchases but in this case within the same model you need to see what you want. If you want it as a capable almost daily with some refinement that could bother modern stuff and be quiet etc then the S2 / "Oval Dash" is for you.
If you want some raw fun and not bothered about a decrease in refinement then the 8V is for you. I actually liked the yellow on black VDO and the mad downwards rev counter and the switchgear. I was lucky that I had a nice dark interior in good knick with black clean carpet etc.
As I was 21 and didn't know any better I kept it on the the rare 944 Turbo alloys with spacers and only when ran out of rear tyres did I swap to a set of smaller black centred 'cookie cutters' and realise with that and an alignment in what was supposed to be temporary transformed the car into something a lot more fun that the crashy over wheeled incrorrect track and camber silliness I had before!
If you like MGB GTs or Triumph GT6 as an idea go for the 8v. If you hanker after a DB7 / Maserati 3200 / BMW M3 from E36 and above then you may want to look at the S2. Not saying thats what they are like but that is where they are on the spectrum of 944 experience if you see what I mean.
Ok, I want a 944 8v now...
Will the wife let me swap her E46 323 for one before we have kids.. :P
I guess like all car purchases but in this case within the same model you need to see what you want. If you want it as a capable almost daily with some refinement that could bother modern stuff and be quiet etc then the S2 / "Oval Dash" is for you.
If you want some raw fun and not bothered about a decrease in refinement then the 8V is for you. I actually liked the yellow on black VDO and the mad downwards rev counter and the switchgear. I was lucky that I had a nice dark interior in good knick with black clean carpet etc.
As I was 21 and didn't know any better I kept it on the the rare 944 Turbo alloys with spacers and only when ran out of rear tyres did I swap to a set of smaller black centred 'cookie cutters' and realise with that and an alignment in what was supposed to be temporary transformed the car into something a lot more fun that the crashy over wheeled incrorrect track and camber silliness I had before!
If you like MGB GTs or Triumph GT6 as an idea go for the 8v. If you hanker after a DB7 / Maserati 3200 / BMW M3 from E36 and above then you may want to look at the S2. Not saying thats what they are like but that is where they are on the spectrum of 944 experience if you see what I mean.
Ok, I want a 944 8v now...
Will the wife let me swap her E46 323 for one before we have kids.. :P Hi Pezz. I previously had a 944S, a Turbo S, and an S2. The S was light and fun with an interesting power delivery but I never thought it was delivering the theoretical 190hp. The Turbo S felt altogether different; heavier, firmer with a laugh-out-loud power delivery. It certainly did feel like all 250 horses were present and correct. The S2 was competent but without joy; the larger capacity engine had good torque but no real charm. To me at least. All 3 were generally very reliable with sense of solidity. If I were in the 944 market again then I think I'd be looking at either the best condition 2.5 8V or Turbo that I could find. I didn't own a pre-oval car, so can't comment on those. Good luck in your search.
WallyCarrera said:
Hi Pezz. I previously had a 944S, a Turbo S, and an S2. The S was light and fun with an interesting power delivery but I never thought it was delivering the theoretical 190hp. The Turbo S felt altogether different; heavier, firmer with a laugh-out-loud power delivery. It certainly did feel like all 250 horses were present and correct. The S2 was competent but without joy; the larger capacity engine had good torque but no real charm. To me at least. All 3 were generally very reliable with sense of solidity. If I were in the 944 market again then I think I'd be looking at either the best condition 2.5 8V or Turbo that I could find. I didn't own a pre-oval car, so can't comment on those. Good luck in your search.
Thanks for your post, it's always good to hear about peoples experiences about all 3. I will hopefully be trying a 944S this weekend with stacks of history with very recent head decoke/rebuild plus very recent servicing.
Great looking cars all the same tho, I cant wait to get behind the wheel of one. The turbo seems very tempting but I will stick with NA for my first car I think esp as I have turbo fun in my other car at the moment...
Pretty much every angle of this has been covered already by m'learned colleagues but...
...Don't forget the 'feel'.
The early cars have a much older feel about them, especially those that are without PAS, ABS, Aircon etc and are running on 7'' wide 15'' rims.
The oval dash cars have the 911 esque dash and font that everyone is so familiar with and just feel like a much more modern car.
As said above the later cars certainly have much more of a GT feel about them. An early car, particularly one without the later driver aids, feels much more like a classic car in the way it goes about its business.
I like them both. In fact I'm currently considering selling my E39 530i Sport and buying a minty mint very late S2 as a daily.
Best advice (assuming you do your homework as eluded to above re rust, belts etc): get in some cars, start to get a feel for the different nature of the two series. Try to avoid nasty aftermarket wheels as they ruin the ride and handling.
Sermon ends.
...Don't forget the 'feel'.
The early cars have a much older feel about them, especially those that are without PAS, ABS, Aircon etc and are running on 7'' wide 15'' rims.
The oval dash cars have the 911 esque dash and font that everyone is so familiar with and just feel like a much more modern car.
As said above the later cars certainly have much more of a GT feel about them. An early car, particularly one without the later driver aids, feels much more like a classic car in the way it goes about its business.
I like them both. In fact I'm currently considering selling my E39 530i Sport and buying a minty mint very late S2 as a daily.
Best advice (assuming you do your homework as eluded to above re rust, belts etc): get in some cars, start to get a feel for the different nature of the two series. Try to avoid nasty aftermarket wheels as they ruin the ride and handling.
Sermon ends.
benjj said:
Pretty much every angle of this has been covered already by m'learned colleagues but...
...Don't forget the 'feel'.
The early cars have a much older feel about them, especially those that are without PAS, ABS, Aircon etc and are running on 7'' wide 15'' rims.
The oval dash cars have the 911 esque dash and font that everyone is so familiar with and just feel like a much more modern car.
As said above the later cars certainly have much more of a GT feel about them. An early car, particularly one without the later driver aids, feels much more like a classic car in the way it goes about its business.
I like them both. In fact I'm currently considering selling my E39 530i Sport and buying a minty mint very late S2 as a daily.
Best advice (assuming you do your homework as eluded to above re rust, belts etc): get in some cars, start to get a feel for the different nature of the two series. Try to avoid nasty aftermarket wheels as they ruin the ride and handling.
Sermon ends.
Thanks for that too.. not a sermon but wise words spoken :-)...Don't forget the 'feel'.
The early cars have a much older feel about them, especially those that are without PAS, ABS, Aircon etc and are running on 7'' wide 15'' rims.
The oval dash cars have the 911 esque dash and font that everyone is so familiar with and just feel like a much more modern car.
As said above the later cars certainly have much more of a GT feel about them. An early car, particularly one without the later driver aids, feels much more like a classic car in the way it goes about its business.
I like them both. In fact I'm currently considering selling my E39 530i Sport and buying a minty mint very late S2 as a daily.
Best advice (assuming you do your homework as eluded to above re rust, belts etc): get in some cars, start to get a feel for the different nature of the two series. Try to avoid nasty aftermarket wheels as they ruin the ride and handling.
Sermon ends.
The 'feel' was one of the first things that Paul (and another owner with both an 88 Lux and S2 stated) mentioned to me having stepped out of his 86 lux and into the S2. The later car did feel very safe and planted on roads when I went out for a spin in it. He also mentioned how much composed and it's resistance to being driven like a tearaway :-)
I am definitely thinking an 85 to 88 car, retro burgundy interior and all, for weekend blats or the tunnel runs with the lads and plan to keep it as original as possible (re standard wheels and suspension).. maybe promax chip at some point but not before I have owned and driven for a while.
I am trying an original 87 S this weekend so fingers crossed
I had 924s Le Mans for 3 years & have had a 944 s2 for a couple of years. Maybe it's only when they're being ragged (which I don't do) that there's a significant difference as to me they drive very similar, apart from a bit of extra poke from the s2. My old man had a lux followed by an S in the late 80s and I do remember him saying he felt the S was slower !
Never tried a 944 turbo but did have a series 1 924 turbo at the same time as the lemans and that was a lot of fun with the turbo boost etc and I preferred the none power steering compared to the lemans and s2's power steering.
All great cars though and I love them all, so if it was me good condition would be my main objective.
Cheers
Never tried a 944 turbo but did have a series 1 924 turbo at the same time as the lemans and that was a lot of fun with the turbo boost etc and I preferred the none power steering compared to the lemans and s2's power steering.
All great cars though and I love them all, so if it was me good condition would be my main objective.
Cheers
Craigybaby69 said:
I had 924s Le Mans for 3 years & have had a 944 s2 for a couple of years. Maybe it's only when they're being ragged (which I don't do) that there's a significant difference as to me they drive very similar, apart from a bit of extra poke from the s2. My old man had a lux followed by an S in the late 80s and I do remember him saying he felt the S was slower !
Never tried a 944 turbo but did have a series 1 924 turbo at the same time as the lemans and that was a lot of fun with the turbo boost etc and I preferred the none power steering compared to the lemans and s2's power steering.
All great cars though and I love them all, so if it was me good condition would be my main objective.
Cheers
Condition and recent maintenance carried out is at the top of my list to make sure the mechanicals are good and that there is minimal corrosion. From what I've read and been told, it will not take much to go wrong to result in staggering bills to rectify issues with these cars and so I need to make sure I have a checklist to tick off as much as I can and not be swept away by the excitement and thrill of the test drive..Never tried a 944 turbo but did have a series 1 924 turbo at the same time as the lemans and that was a lot of fun with the turbo boost etc and I preferred the none power steering compared to the lemans and s2's power steering.
All great cars though and I love them all, so if it was me good condition would be my main objective.
Cheers
Since looking, over the past couple of months, I haven't come across any 924 turbos, but can only imagine what a hoot to drive they would be.. :-)
Edited by pezz on Thursday 15th January 13:41
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