Can my wife claim the cost of training courses against PAYE?
Can my wife claim the cost of training courses against PAYE?
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Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,622 posts

243 months

Friday 16th January 2015
quotequote all
Evening all,

My wife recently qualified as a Personal Trainer, and is also looking at gaining a couple of other qualifications to teach Pilates and the like.

If she was self employed, I assume that the course fees for gaining the qualifications could be claimed against tax, but she's employed by a local leisure centre, and they don't pay for courses.

As such, is there any way she can claim the cost of the courses against PAYE?

Simpo Two

92,951 posts

295 months

Friday 16th January 2015
quotequote all
It seems that the decision to spend money on training courses is hers, and not required/demanded by her employer. I suppose she could ask if she could put it on expenses - but expect to be disappointed.

LC23

1,315 posts

255 months

Friday 16th January 2015
quotequote all
Would the employer consider paying for the course via salary sacrifice or are they not interested in getting involved at all?

Eric Mc

125,770 posts

295 months

Friday 16th January 2015
quotequote all
For a cost to be legitimately offset against EMPLOYMENT income for tax purposes, it must have been incurred "wholly, exclusively and NECCESSARILLY in the performance of the employment duties".

Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,622 posts

243 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
For a cost to be legitimately offset against EMPLOYMENT income for tax purposes, it must have been incurred "wholly, exclusively and NECCESSARILLY in the performance of the employment duties".
I can't imagine anyone (even HMRC!) would argue with personal training and pilates qualifications being gained wholly and exclusively for the performance of employment duties.

As for the "neccessarily", she had to be REPS3 qualified (the personal trainer qualification) before she could even apply for the job she currently does, and I'm pretty sure it is also a mandatory requirement for her public liability insurance.

Based on the above, am I right in thinking she would qualify?

schmunk

4,399 posts

155 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
I can't imagine anyone (even HMRC!) would argue with personal training and pilates qualifications being gained wholly and exclusively for the performance of employment duties.

As for the "neccessarily", she had to be REPS3 qualified (the personal trainer qualification) before she could even apply for the job she currently does, and I'm pretty sure it is also a mandatory requirement for her public liability insurance.

Based on the above, am I right in thinking she would qualify?
Yes, it is possible to make a standalone claim for tax relief if not reimbursed by an employer. I don't have legislation / HMRC guidance in front of me at the moment, but it's definitely in there. There are, of course, conditions which I cannot remember.

Eric Mc

125,770 posts

295 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
It sounds like the expense CAN be claimed.

I'm a qualified accountant and when I was an employee I used to claim my annual professional subscriptions on the basis that being qualified was one of the criteria of being employed. If I had let my qualification lapse, I would have been let go.

The test for allowability of expenses incurred by employees is tighter than the test for those who want to offset costs in business. The extra test is the "necessary" factor. The cost MUST be incurred in order for the employee to be able to carry on whatever employment they have.

schmunk

4,399 posts

155 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32525.h...

This is the HMRC manual (internal guidance, but freely published) explaining the basis for allowing a claim for self-funded training expenses.

Eric Mc

125,770 posts

295 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
"The only exception is where the external education is an integral part of the duties of the employment, see EIM32535".

The embolded text is their interpretation of "wholly, exclusively and necessary"

Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,622 posts

243 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
Many thanks, chaps. At the very least, it sounds like it's worth giving HMRC a call to check.

Spangles

1,441 posts

215 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
What about training before employment? Say I wanted to be truck driver but was currently unemployed. Could I pay for my training/test etc. , get a job and then claim?

Eric Mc

125,770 posts

295 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
No.

Spangles

1,441 posts

215 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
quotequote all
Short and to the point smile Ta.

schmunk

4,399 posts

155 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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Eric Mc said:
No.
Not exactly true - see Silva v Charnock

Spangles

1,441 posts

215 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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schmunk said:
Eric Mc said:
No.
Not exactly true - see Silva v Charnock
Aha. So if my hypothetical lorry firm offered me a bonus to join them of my training fees I'd be OK?

Eric Mc

125,770 posts

295 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
quotequote all
schmunk said:
Not exactly true - see Silva v Charnock
Legal cases will often throw up anomalies.

Although in this case it seems the claim was being made by the EMPLOYER (NOT the employee). And the case is described as "exceptional" - although HMRC would say that).

Per HMRC -


Silva v Charnock (SpC332)
Where such an amount is paid, the employers and/or the employee may contend that the Special Commissioner’s decision in Silva v Charnock (SpC332) supports their argument that the reimbursement of costs incurred in relation to pre-employment training qualifies for exemption under section 250. The facts in that appeal, which the Special Commissioner allowed, were somewhat unusual. The decision will not necessarily apply in other cases where the facts are different.

The general rule is that pre-employment education costs cannot be claimed. If that was the case, every pilot, doctor (even accountant) would be claiming for the education costs they incurred (and paid for) before they started working".

You can always "take a flyer" with a tax claim and see how you get on.

There can only be one of two outcomes smile

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 18th January 07:14