harness in your daily
Discussion
Hi everyone just thought ide bring up this topic to see what everyone has to say on the subject. I drive a mk3 golf ABF that has recently been stripped out with rollcage, bucket seats and harnesses and a lot of other mods to make it handle great etc when I can find time to get to the track. As I also use it for my daily Ive recently noticed how much of a hassle it is to use on road due to the cage restricting view slightly and the harness pinning you in your seat, especially when at a tight junction. Is there anyone else out there that has a daily track style car and how do you get on with it on a daily basis?
Quhet said:
I couldn't live with one tbh, it would piss me off no end spending about 15 minutes getting into the car for a 2 minute hop to the supermarket or something
I don't know what cars with roll cages you've been in but I've competed in all manner of rallycars and it's no major hassle getting into a car with a cage and doing the belts up once you're used to it The belts take a matter of seconds to clip in and tighten.Granted I wouldn't want one for daily driving and it is harder than an inertial reel/car without a cage but it's not that bad.
I would suggest that a cage and an inertia reel belt isn't a good combination, so persevere with the harness. I used my Caterham most days for a year and got used to it. The only thing that was noticably inconvenient in the end was the fact that when seated in the car and belted up your arse is literally 6" off the ground and due to the way the wheels protrude you are always a foot away from the curb even if the front and rear wheels were touching it. This made multi-storey car parks a bit of a struggle, being that the barrier ticket machine would be positioned set slightly back from the curb and about three feet up to cater for those selfish tintop drivers.
Unfortunately my Caterham had a roll cage and windscreen so I couldn't simply drive under the barriers.
A lot of it comes down to harness / buckle design and ease of use. I had decent Luke 3" shoulder straps and I could fully slacken and re-tighten the shoulder straps with one hand if I really needed to loosen them at an unsighted junction or multi-storey scenario due to the way they were designed and also because they were regularly used and not stiff from lack of use.
Get in the habit of slacking the shoulder straps off each time you stop the car and want to unclip the belts, this makes them easier to do up when you get back in and also forces you to tighten them properly before every journey.
Unfortunately my Caterham had a roll cage and windscreen so I couldn't simply drive under the barriers.
A lot of it comes down to harness / buckle design and ease of use. I had decent Luke 3" shoulder straps and I could fully slacken and re-tighten the shoulder straps with one hand if I really needed to loosen them at an unsighted junction or multi-storey scenario due to the way they were designed and also because they were regularly used and not stiff from lack of use.
Get in the habit of slacking the shoulder straps off each time you stop the car and want to unclip the belts, this makes them easier to do up when you get back in and also forces you to tighten them properly before every journey.
The 7 has harnesses only. I used it daily for numerous years and yes it takes longer to belt up, but you get used to it. A bit of a pain when taking passengers who know nothing of a harness.
The inertia seat belt is a optional fitment, but having seen some pictures of peoples crashes while wearing them and the mangled steering wheel from the result, I'd only use a harness.
I believe that having a cage and no helmet can be troublesome if your head can hit it in the event of a crash.
The inertia seat belt is a optional fitment, but having seen some pictures of peoples crashes while wearing them and the mangled steering wheel from the result, I'd only use a harness.
I believe that having a cage and no helmet can be troublesome if your head can hit it in the event of a crash.
This is what I used in my road/track day car: http://english.schroth.com/tuning/produktdetail.ph...
The issue you have is that you've made your car considerably less safe for the road.
Harnesses have very little give, so all the forces are transmitted through to your neck.
Cages that are close enough to be an issue are the equivalent of being hit by a very big scaffold pole...
There are harnesses with locking inertia reels, which are better at giving a gradual acceleration, but ultimately you have a car about as safe as driving with no belts at all and a six inch spike sticking out the steering wheel.
Personally always had the view that if it's a road car with occasional track use, a full cage gives far less advantages than it does disadvantages...
Harnesses have very little give, so all the forces are transmitted through to your neck.
Cages that are close enough to be an issue are the equivalent of being hit by a very big scaffold pole...
There are harnesses with locking inertia reels, which are better at giving a gradual acceleration, but ultimately you have a car about as safe as driving with no belts at all and a six inch spike sticking out the steering wheel.
Personally always had the view that if it's a road car with occasional track use, a full cage gives far less advantages than it does disadvantages...
Sway said:
The issue you have is that you've made your car considerably less safe for the road.
Harnesses have very little give, so all the forces are transmitted through to your neck.
There are harnesses with locking inertia reels, which are better at giving a gradual acceleration, but ultimately you have a car about as safe as driving with no belts at all
Whilst I'd agree about the cage, I'm a little confused about the harnesses. If a harness is "unsafe" at likely road impact speeds, because it transmits too much of the force to your neck, what on earth is it going to do to your neck at track speeds and with the extra mass of a helmet? Unless you're suggesting everybody in anything with a harness should always wear HANS, too?Harnesses have very little give, so all the forces are transmitted through to your neck.
There are harnesses with locking inertia reels, which are better at giving a gradual acceleration, but ultimately you have a car about as safe as driving with no belts at all
I find it depends on the ergonomics of the car in question. I never struggle with Caterhams, but Lotuses put the steering wheel so far away from the driver I need to extend it with a spacer, which means with harnesses in my 2-Eleven I can't reach the switch for the lights, or if I was in an Exige, the CD player.
TooMany2cvs said:
Whilst I'd agree about the cage, I'm a little confused about the harnesses. If a harness is "unsafe" at likely road impact speeds, because it transmits too much of the force to your neck, what on earth is it going to do to your neck at track speeds and with the extra mass of a helmet? Unless you're suggesting everybody in anything with a harness should always wear HANS, too?
Yep. In my opinion. Blunt trauma is one thing, which a helmet performs admirably at. Internal decapitation is something they make more likely, and so a different device is required to alleviate this.
Of course, it adds cost, and may be difficult to implement in your average stripped trackday hatchback - but I personally feel it's pretty selfish to be wanging round a track at high speed, pushing my personal limits, without doing whatever I can to sensibly reduce the possibility I leave my kids fatherless...
Emotive argument I know, but that's my view.
TooMany2cvs said:
Unless you're suggesting everybody in anything with a harness should always wear HANS, too?
Ideally, yes. Inertia reels with deformable mounting points and pre-tensionners do a better job than harnesses in road cars.
7,000th post! Edited by BritishRacinGrin on Wednesday 21st January 09:41
Thanks all for taking the time to give your point of view on this. I'm currently running omp trs seats with trs 4 point harnesses and a rear safety devices rollcage along with quick release omp steering wheel. I think I might have to look into the possibility of a normal daily and keep the golf as a dedicated track toy in the future. ;D
I have side stays on the cage aswell which bolt through where the existing seat belt tensioner went which lets the cage sit that little bit further back so I'm not near it. Plus the trs is quite a high backed seat meaning my head is nowhere near the cage, Part of the reason I chose the safety devices designed cage 
I decided to switch to a raceseat and harness in my track car, as I didn't have enough headroom for a helmet and I couldn't hold myself in the seat when cornering hard. I still use the car occasionally on the road, and they are something of a PITA. It doesn't take long to do them up, but I have to empty my phone, wallet, housekeys out of my poskets before I can squeeze my arse into the bucket seat! (Also, the waist belts are meant to bear directly onto your pelvis, not try to imprint an iPhone and a key ring onto it in the event of a crash).
I wouldn't like to say whether they're more or less safe on the road, personally I can't believe I have made my lightweight 25 year old car any less safe, but the benefit on track makes the compromise worthwhile for me. I couldn't put up with them in a daily driver though!
I wouldn't like to say whether they're more or less safe on the road, personally I can't believe I have made my lightweight 25 year old car any less safe, but the benefit on track makes the compromise worthwhile for me. I couldn't put up with them in a daily driver though!
haha I have to do the emptying of the pockets routine too, My cars 21 years old now so with the cage, strut braces, eiback arb's and coilovers it makes it great fun to drive as it holds the corners well, its just the harness situation at junctions etc that has got old really fast and become as previously said a pita. I think another small daily is definitely on the cards.
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